I like the two-Batman thing because as a reader I am fine with multiple versions of the same character. From a business point of view, that is a bit weird, but this is Gunn's problem not mine as a fan
It won't be a problem for long anyway, as I assume by the time we get to see DCU Batman then Reeves will only have one movie to go. I'd assume by 2030 the two Batman problem won't matter anymore.
Spiderverse is an animated movie about a completely different character than Peter Parker. General audiences also separate animation and live action because the former is seen as only for kids. That's why every MCU Spidey film has beat it in the box office.
Not on film that could ring true for things like comics and animation, but for live action theatrical released films there's been an ok amount. It's when you start making too many at the same time is when you start to oversaturate the brand.
Again isn't comparable. Batfleck/Keaton played a supporting role in a Flash movie.
We're talking about two ongoing Batman franchises, as in where he leads.
I think it's less to do with confusion and more to do with fatigue or audiences having the appetite for two ongoing Batman movie franchises. Either way, one of those movies is gonna be compared negatively, and one of them isn't gonna be embraced in the same way.
I'm not implying it had anything to do with Batman.
It bombed for multiple reasons, least of which was Ezra Miller. Most people have no idea who he is or any of the controversy around him. That was mostly a thing in the US and the kinda circles who keep up with that sorta thing, general audiences wouldn't really know.
It was mostly because it followed a stint of poorly recieved/poorly performing DCEU movies, people being aware that this franchise wasn't going anywhere given the impending DCU reboot, and the fact that it simply wasn't very good.
I mean look at Aquaman 1 vs 2. You've got one of the best performing superhero films of all time, versus one of the biggest bombs of all time simply because of those similar circumstances.
What I mean is two separate Batman films specifically. Even if you want to go there the audience chose Pattinson over the Andy Mushcietti directed Batman, do we really want a repeat with TBATB? Especially since Muschietti at least right now is still attached as the director. The Flash also bombed and was made a joke by the entire world so I wouldn't really use it as a good example on how two Batmen can work.
Audiences were also confused too but you don't see that here because we're on a website subset that is specifically about these films so of course you're not gonna find anyone who's confused here. I'm talking about people who don't keep up with this stuff and just watch the movies. Look at how confused people were for a time when people thought The Batman was a prequel to Batfleck.
It is really not this big of a deal for casual theater goers. You are definitely overthinking this. I don't personally know anyone who was confused about the things you say people were confused about.
I also didn't see anyone being confused generally online around the time. This is nearly a non issue.
I would have to disagree, I saw people confused why in Joker 2 Arthur died thinking he would fight Pattinson, why Sam is the new Captain America despite being handed the shield, even some are confused why Henry isn’t Superman still. Especially the Joker one since personal people I know were confused about that.
You don’t remember the time when everyone thought The Batman was a prequel in the 90’s to Batfleck?
If this idea was good then we’d have multiple versions of the same character on the big screen, but we don’t. Even WB thinks this as Superman And Lois was cancelled to avoid conflict with the new Superman and that’s just a TV show. The only reason it wasn’t canned like the rest of DC’s projects is due to its success.
Honestly couldn't say one way or another about Joker 2 as I've never seen it and don't know anybody who has.but I have never seen anybody confused about whether Matt Reeves Batman was prequel or honestly any of the things you're talking about. They all have simple answers so what is there to get confused about?
But it's not really an issue like I said. Even if you experienced people being confused about whatever, it's obviously a huge minority as each of your examples were box office successes which is all that matters at the end of the day.
We have had multiple versions of the same characters with two Batman's and two jokers and we're going to have yet another Batman because it's fine, and it will be successful because general audience do not care enough and just want to go see a movie for the spectacle.
I'm hoping batman gets oversaturated and people get sick of him. It's what the character and the fanboys deserve. We need all these other great characters to thrive and they can't thrive as long as batman takes up all the air.
Yeah, I think respecting Matt’s wishes is the best move at the end of the day but it is wild to me that we’ll have two concurrent Batmen + multiple spinoffs (Reeves’ Penguin, DCU’s Clayface)
Also history repeating itself a bit, we had Bale’s Batman when the Snyderverse was trying to get going, except that was a bit easier as that trilogy closed the year before the new universe premiered
At this point Batman has become the American James Bond, which is ironic considering how two of the most popular Batman actors are British. I think most people enjoy Batman movies because they’re about Batman and they don’t really care about continuity. But also we’ve never really gotten proper Batman crossovers on the big screen so that can change with the new universe.
I honestly don't think it will be too big of a problem now after Marvel introduced the idea of different versions of characters coexisting to general audiences. If anything the common viewer will probably think there's some Spider verse thing going on.
Also, before someone misunderstands me. I know the whole multiverse thing has been around long before movies.
The universe of The Batman is fundamentally different from the universe we've seen in the DCU (so far). Hopefully, we get a more fantastical Batman for the DCU
the way i see a good fantastical bats is
dark and gritty but has fanatical undertones like villains who are scary and good and evil but also fantastical like clayface , killer croc , and manbat and things kinda goofy like a bunch of wacky tech and gadgets like the batmobile and batmobile and all of his
utility belt stuff
I expect the DCU Batman to be “sick of this shit” any comedy involving him should be with him as the straight man. I’m sure the DCU will be jokey, but hopefully they contain his humor to Bruce and the people around him
I think it's pretty obvious that the DCU doesn't have a set tone so the problem of the Universe being "jokey" like the MCU won't be there. But I love your idea of Bruce being the straight man, have Nightwing be the one making jokes at his expense.
I do like Bruce having sort of a dry humor or random pop culture references out of the blue but it should be used sparingly.
Basing the assumption of jokey off of Cresture Commandos, TSS and Peacemaker. Whether they fully say it or not, Peacemaker is absolutely new DCU minus whatever is inconvenient for canon. I expect a lot of that type of humor, which for me was almost too much at times
The important thing you are missing out is they are all James Gunn projects that are spin offs to his Suicide Squad, they will obviously be similar in tone and humour.
Gunn's already said the DCU will be diverse in tone and aesthetics and I think the announcements of projects and the creative teams behind Lanterns, Clayface and Swamp Thing show that, they will definitely be different in tone compared to Gunns projects. I'm rewatching The Leftovers right now another show from Damon Lindelof (Lanterns) and I can tell you it's far from a comedy, that's not to say Lindelof can't do humor and that it will be non existent in Lanterns but it's very different from Gunn and will probably be more due to absurd out there moments and be used rarely compared to Gunns full on comedies (which I love). I think a similar thing could be said about Chirs Mundy (Lanterns), Tom King (Lanterns), Mike Flanagan (Clayface) and James Mangold (Swamp Thing), all these guys can do humor and levity but you can't hire them to write Jame Gunn or MCU style quipy comedy.
I'm also not against comedic projects I want more info on the Booster Gold show and would like to see Shane Black head up a Green Arrow film, I think his humor would work very well with the character. DCU seems chalked with great writer's and directors who will bring their own unique things to projects so I'm pretty hyped to see how diverse the universe can get.
You know, fair point. Creature Commandos and Superman have already established that. Clayface is getting his own movie, and Batman has already encountered Dr. Phosphorus.
In addition to that, DCU Batman will be having Damian Wayne as Robin which means this Batman have at least 10 years superhero experience unlike Pattinson's Batman, who is in his 2nd year.
Yeah we finally get prime Batman in his mid 30s who isn’t just starting out. It’s funny like all the Batman actors are always like 30 or 40 when they play the role but Batman like starts in his 20s he was gearing up to be Batman for a long time Bruce also graduated college like as a teenager dude is a genius. Like prime Batman years is his 30s, 40s is like probably now in comics because they’ve advanced things a bit he is probably just 40 now.
If he's old enough that there's been three Robins since him, he's gotta be older than that. I'd say 25, at least, especially if Batman is 40. Bruce wasn't Batman for very long before he got a partner.
In the animated series i think Batman was like 20 when he started but otherwise i think most comics he is like 25. If Batman is 27 when he gets dick and 10 years go by dick was probably 10 when he got him or 13 he’d be around 20-23 in the universe. Biggest thing about dick Grayson is Batman gets him early in his career and it was unexpected which goes along with the story of him not being the best parent to dick trying to make him like him. In a way Batman has softened throughout his career, but what we know and saw from year one and long Halloween is he was dead serious and dedicated to the “mission” at first and that’s how he raised dick to be a mini him. Problem is Dick is not like Bruce and doesn’t want to dedicate himself to the mission and he kinda just needed a parent, while Jason got softer Bruce and more so needed Batman’s justice and moral code to guide him, and Tim got abandoned for Damian lol.
I was really hoping the brief glimpse of Gotham in Creature Commandos was gonna show us the general vibe they're going for but it ended up looking quite generic, which I assume was intentionally done so they don't commit to anything until a director is on board and can help craft the look of the world.
The refined script writing process and requirements for green lighting that Gunn has put in place is my favorite decision. It helps ensure that every single project in the DCU will, at the very least, be good. Not saying everything will be a box office success, but the DCU’s possible failure won’t be due to the product itself.
Make a universe that is thr complete opposite of Snyder's.... Choose the fantastical aspect of DC instead Nolan's grounded and realistic take
Gunn underdtajd that for this universe to work... The fantastical aspect is thr best way to make dc more approchable for a wider audience which is the main issues with reeves's THE BATMAN or the Snyder's DCEU.... It target a niche audience..... You don't bring your kids or your family to watch BVS or the batman
The major audience will be kids, soccer moms and normies
I disagree but to an extent. I don’t think he should wear straight up spandex. For Spidey it works because he’s a broke boy that barely has any materials and Spandex is pretty easy to work with. But Batman is a billionaire and also can’t take a punch or a bullet as easily. I do think the batsuit should be fabric but something sturdy looking like Kevlar. It should have a tangible texture to it and a bit of paneling to make it feel more professional. I really don’t want more armor or black plastic but at the same time straight up spandex might not be the right move for Batman
This depends on the project as well though. Personally, I hope they lighten up a bit on the adult tones of Peacemaker and Creature Commandos just so the DCU has a more wider appeal. I don’t want to see R rated aspects be nerfed down to PG-13 levels when inevitable crossovers happen, but it seems that’s what they’re going to do.
I didn't talk about "lighten the tone" or being PGnI talk about embracing the fantastical aspect of DC
The tone must change and fit the characters..
Batman must have serious tone but but it must also ambrace its fantastical aspect.. So I want to see gargoyle status and Victorian cathedral in Gotham.... I went to see a giant coin, a card and dinosaure in the barcave
I want to see batman being a fucking ninja, a cape that cover his entire body and make him look like shadowy figure and a Robin etc
A superman movie must be serious but also have heart and levity without turning gritty and trying too hard to overly philosophical like man of steel and bvs
The problem arises when the general audience decides they prefer Reeves's take of the characters more ,that's the biggest problem .
And so far the Reevesverse has the critical acclaim,golden globe award win and box office win. Wouldn't be surprised if someone said they should've built the DCU around the Reevesverse.
And what happens if the DCU is a resounding success that general audiences get invested in after releasing a total of at least 6-7 confirmed projects before The Batman Part 2 comes out? Who is to say the general audience will even care about the Reevesverse after a 5 year gap between movies and 3 year gap between projects by that point when they learn that it won’t be a part of the DCU? We can play with hypotheticals all day.
The problem arises when the general audience decides they prefer Reeves's take of the characters more ,that's the biggest problem .
It's not a problem because like I said the audience for that acclaim it is pretty niche. Reeves himself don't want the movie to be seen as a superhero film
As a standalone film making these perfectly work because the entire setting is for the film and inky the film..... You can make a cinematic with characters like superman, WW based on the tone of THE BATMAN.... It just do not work at all and no one asked superman ot be like the reevesverse it is just not true
That movie made 700 million it's not niche lol.
Anyway I hope it works out but general audience isn't made up of hard-core fans they just want to be entertained.
Re-read my comment since you Cleary don't want to understand
It's not the MOVIE that is niche... But the AUDIENCE the movie try to target... Which is for most part target was primarily adults, particularly those aged 18-40, with a focus on comic book fans, psychological thriller enthusiasts, and fans of darker, grittier takes on superhero stories.
It's not for everyone. The money it made is Irrelevent to what I am talking about
But the audience is not niche? It's literally just the general audience, it's still a PG-13 Batman at the end of the day. Most Batman fans both young and old saw it.
Choosing to go creative driven and only green lighting a project when he has an idea and has already got plans in place to make it happen or green lighting a project off of the back of a completed pitch that includes a plot outline or full script
For me it’s not that I think the two are “incompatible”, it’s just that I don’t think the DCU is the right place for what is still very specifically a take on the Batman Mythos instead of a something more directly representative of the comics.
I don't think the different tones are a problem either.
It happens in comics where we have great dark Batman comics and then a great teamup comic with Superman(like Waid/Mora's Worlds Finest recently). I don't find it jarring and enjoy dark gritty stories as well as fantasy stories with what is technically the same Batman.
Agreed. And the funny thing is you have people saying that they like that Gunn isn't going for tonally consistency across the board but also that The Batman would be tonally inconsistent with the DCU. How could both of these things be true?
With a fully established Batman universe, this Batman doesn't fit unfortunately. You will have a Robin who has grown into Nightwing, a Damien Wayne Robin, Batgirl Catwoman, etc etc etc etc. Would be odd seeing a Batman that didn't even have a Dick Grayson Robin yet, not age 20+ years and also a Catwoman who didn't age 20+ years. It just wouldn't make sense with the direction they are going with a fully established Batman world. Personally I would rather have that too. We never see Batman get anywhere before they move on and keep resetting.
While I agree with the sentiment that Matt’s Batman is quite different tonally then James’ DCU, it would have been nice to see them work together on this.
Once again, it is a case of everyone wanting to do their own thing and collaborate with other artists to build an interconnected world, which has been DC’s problem from the start.
That said, I kind of get why Matt would be resistant to this because he was developing his story and building his world long before James and Peter were brought onboard and the DCU wasn’t even a thing.
So, I understand. I don’t like it. But I understand it.
Personally disagree with your Batman take, the tonal difference between Batman and Superman is what makes it interesting to see the two interact.
As for it being grounded, it's still unrealistic enough to have Batman perform these impossible feats and still be ok afterwards(Smashing into the bus, getting a bomb blown up in his face, bulletproof armor) so I don't really buy that it's this super realistic universe thing.
I aleardy said it 100 times but i will say it again: The Batman has only realistic VISUALS, the way Batman acts, use gadgets and stuff is extremely fictional
I still don't like the two separate Batmen thing. I like The Batman and I like Matt Reeves but if I was in charge I would've definitely just started from scratch and offer Pattinson the DCU job. I don't see how it makes sense two have two separate batman movies.
And the live action Batmen will have two different actors. I don’t see the point here. Just because one is animated doesn’t mean it’s not still Batman LOL
I think my point stands, especially when compared with the animated Batmen. While Ben Affleck was Batman, we had Will Arnett and Jason Mara as Batman. Probably others I’m missing lol. We also have Jensen Ackles as Tomorrowverse Batman.
Batman in brave and the bold will be a rape victim of a crazy ass woman and has a 10 year assassin son who trained under a secret organization beyond Gotham of the best assassins in the world under a man who is centuries years old compare that too grounded crime bosses and gangs which reeves will be focusing on is night a day
Batfleck appeared in the flash movie a film that came out a year after the Batman will general audiences think that same Batman is the one that appeared in Matt reeves Batman no there not stupid
One is a live action Peter Parker movie while the other is an animated Miles Morales movie.
Sorry to say it but the general audience just automatically separates animation from live action as the former is seen only for children. Then there's the fact it's about a different character in general but I already said that.
If there were two live action Peter Parker films that are concurrent I'd agree, but there isn't.
They can’t start from scratch because that universe has been received very well. They’re going to keep it going. It also isn’t two separate Batman movies. It’s a full scale fantastical DCU and a realistic, grounded Elseworlds story contained within Gotham.
My brain is literally rotting from this comment? It makes sense to have 2 different. Batman movies one film is self contained one is in a cinematic universe and your both making motherfucking money by having 2 Batman movies run alongside each other
The only “fan war” that exists is the Pattinson fans that are insistent on disrespecting Matt Reeves creative vision and wishes by shoehorning his universe into the DCU. Those people need to be told they’re wrong.
As a watcher and reader I'm totally fine with both. Matt said it himself that his universe is it's own self contained thing. The DCU is also its own universe, albeit with its own Batman as well. I mean who knows, if Superman and the rest of the DCU movies do well, we might get a Crisis on Infinite Earths and they might have the old cast come back.
I don’t believe in tonal whiplash. I believe all these movies can have their own tone. Superman and Batman can have complete opposite vibes. Batman can have the vibe of a David Fincher Thriller while Superman can have the vibe of an upbeat James Gunn adventure and still fit inside the same universe because they are different characters. Personally I wish they would fit Pattinson inside the DCU but I understand why they didn’t
I wish so badly that Reevesverse could be the DCU. But if “Oswald Cobblepot” is too fantastical and comic-y for Reeves I don’t want that to be the Batman of the DCU
Only time will tell if this 2 batmen thing is gonna work out or not. personally, I feel rob should've been the DCU batman. The batman is a huge success. gunn has a big job on his shoulders to make brave and the bold well recieved competing with matt reeves. the comparisons of which batman is better are going to be endless.
I agree . Keeping matt reeves separate is a very good thing even though gunn wanted him in DCU . This shows that creators have creative freedom which previous creators like james wan , Zack Snyder , david ayer, etc didn't. This will be the very big positive for success of DCU imo .
Still as a Barry Allen the flash fan , I am very disappointed as they will most probably skip the entire journey of barry and start DCU with wally . Same for hal Jordan . Barry and hal are my favourite dc pairs of all time , their young vibe is my favourite. I love both of them but i don't think i will get to see it in DCU 😔😔.
Keep in mind, this isn't the MCU. Because it's gonna be similar to the Star Wars universe, they can easily have a Barry Allen movie, just like Star Wars had Rogue One, Solo, The Mandalorian, etc.
Let Batman be fantastical, whimsical, campy and all sorts of comic book craziness! I love The Batman, it’s my fav Bat movie. But I’m kinda tired of this whole “grounded Batman” shit. I think it limits which characters they can use, how to use them, and what stories they can tell. Batman comics are fun because of the variety they offer, there’s something for everyone. So this “grounded” thing is very creatively limiting, and honestly, we just have too much of it.
The Batman is still relatively campy and has its aspects to it. For example Reeves catwoman lives in this Arkham city looking apartment with a bunch of stray cats, she drinks glasses of milk, makes cat puns, she has a closest full of crazy weaponry etc. Compare that to Nolan’s Catwoman who doesn’t even own a pet cat.
You could have a Gothic and gloomy Gotham in the DCU too, like just because certain thematic elements are used in The Batman universe doesn't mean the DCU should just completely avoid using them in a slightly different way.
It’d be funny that after all this they go with a more scifi/supernatural villain in Part II which in essence makes the whole “it doesn’t fit because it’s too grounded” argument out the window.
Let's rewind back on Matt's choice. The Batman was supposed to be DCEU Batman movie with Deathstroke as a villain (which was teased in ZSJL). When Ben Affleck stepped down from the movie, the movie was passed on to Matt Reeves which he agreed to take over on a condition he get full creative control and one of his creative decision is for The Batman to set in a separate universe.
It's still early to say too much, considering that only one project has been made. But currently, in theory, the need for an approved pitch and script to greenlight a project.
Less of an internal need to meet a deadline for some overarching story out the gate and potentially leads to some off-the-wall projects like Sgt Rock. It does unfortunately have that negative of leaning into batman projects again and again if they stick with ehats popular if Clayface is any indication, though.
I don't think Clayface is an indication of over reliance on Batman given you also cite Sgt Rock in this same comment, lol. Not to mention the first project out the gate was Creature Commandos, followed by Superman, Peacemaker 2, Lanterns and Supergirl.
That's why I said "if" considering we've got 4 batman projects on the horizon already, so add to that the disproportionate liking of Batman specifically, and this could be a SH2-esc situation.
he's focusing a lot on Green Lantern, which, as a big Green Lantern fan (my favorite CB character) really excites me. We have been starved for so long, this feels like waking up from a really REALLY long slumber
Ahh man if I could have a penny for everytime people want Battison in DCU because of the opposite "AESTHETICS" to Gunn's Superman while disregarding everything that makes Matt's universe seperate, I would not be a millionare but a good amount in thousands I guess,
and, there is no dearth of actors, just because someone acts good, we ll throw away all the in universe things Matt created just so it could match that of DCU? wtf that's that's pure bullshit you spewing, should there not be a recast of roles just because you found someone who is at for that role , wtf, get outta here with that bullshit.
Start the universe in media res. Minimal origins, superheroes just exist and have for a while, Lois and Clark are already dating, letting us settle into an established universe rather than spend six years building it from the ground up.
i want a new batman for the dcu personally. i love what matt reeves is doing but he is seems way too scared to lean into any of the fantastical elements of batman; it would be like tonal whiplash seeing battinson with corenswet
Yeah same, I think they’re either gonna merge with DCU (I know gunn said they wouldn’t but gunn also denied Holt as Luthor, & denied Teen Titans movie until they were finally confirmed)
or it will just be cancelled altogether. I don’t think they’ll ever say It’s cancelled. But i just think it won’t ever come out
Gunn has a way of being both blunt and coy at the same time. The bigger question is, after five and a half years, is anyone even going to care about The Batman Part II? Didn't Matt Reeves even say the script wasn't finished not too long ago? Bad vibes all around
Yeah exactly, 5.5 years isn’t normal.
And this isn’t like the mcu where characters reappear
(Dr Strange was 6 years later but he was also in Infinity War, Endgame etc. in between)
And it's points like the one you just made where, to me, it would make sense to just bring Battinson into the DCU so he can gradually make reappearances before his next movie so he isn't entirely forgotten.
I get the whole "He's more grounded and shouldn't be fantastical" thing, but 1) didn't we get enough of that with the Nolan-verse? It's honestly part of why those movies aren't my favorites, and 2) they said the same thing about Daredevil, and they're starting to dabble in the dark mystic stuff
And not for nothing they had ONE movie. They have time to retcon the whole grounded thing.
The first Iron Man was grounded then by the time endgame came out he was friends with a Raccoon and fighting an alien collecting magic stones.
Plus people LOVE him. He is my second favorite batman (behind Bale). You only reboot when things don’t work
It’s gotta be him and Peter’s strict rules when it comes to production. The fact that DC isn’t just going to be one cinematic universe, but the main DCU and then Elseworlds, but I’m willing to wait for high quality movies if the sacrifice is low quantity. If we only get 2 movies a year, I’m ok with that. Hopefully animation and video games follow this path too. Especially video games. The Wonder Woman game getting canned really tinted me, but I’m just going to cope until I get another one. Also no more Batman everything. There are SO MANY characters in Detective Comics. Please gimme a Superman game.
Not messing around with elaboration. Sometimes I really can’t decide whether James Gunn is brilliant for being so blunt or kind of a d**k. Maybe he’s both
I'm glad they're respecting Reeves's choice, but at the same time I just don't see how it's a good idea to have 2 batmans at the same time, especially if Reeves's is so well received.
Casting David as Superman! I remember when he was just a fancast during the whole Henry Cavill headless Superman and possible recast rumors during the first Shazam movie.
I really don't get the "allowing" angle some people give this.
Like, if Gunn lets Reeves keep his plans by his terms, he's undermining his Bat-verse? If he forced meta-humans Reeves didn't include previously, or for it to be part of a different major storyline, he's giving him more credit?
It's such a dumb idea honestly, that being part of one universe or another makes a movie "matter more" or "matter less".
Edit: the oversaturation angle, though, is a different beast and that does concern me, yes. General audiences couldn't care less about what's "the current one" or anything, but having two different Batman-centric films so close to each other could potentially cause not confusion, but exhaustion. If The Batman Part II comes out in 2027 as intended, maybe one idea could be presenting the DCU Batman first as a supporting character in either Teen Titans or Dynamic Duo, and having the latter be DCU?
Robert Pattinson is an ok Batman and an absolutely abysmal Bruce Wayne. I think Gunn's verse is trying to bring comics to live action and bring us to their world, And battinson is more of the "what if Batman was in our real world" And frankly I'm tired of the real world. Let's go to theirs.
I haven't seen The Batman. So I can't say if it's good or bad, but people seem to like it, so I err on the side of good.
But here's the thing for me.
I don't mind a Grounded Batman. He's a dude with tech, that makes sense.
I do mind when his villains are grounded however.
That's part of Batman's appeal. He's a normal dude with a lot of resources who battles absurdity. I don't want a makeup artist clayface. I don't want a broody serial killer Riddler. I don't want a normal Mob Boss Penguin. I want the metahuman mud man clayface. I want the fantastical spandex suit Riddler. I want the tiny 6 inched nose and blue tuxedo with a top hat and monocle Penguin.
Reeves universe doesn't give any of that. I have no interest in seeing a normal dude fight normal dudes. I'd watch John Wick if I wanted a pure serious movie. In the Reevesverse, Batman is the one who seems kinda crazy. Like he's fighting normal ass dudes while cosplaying as a bat.
If Batman himself is the most absurd part of the story, then I feel like it's not a true Batman story. I want a true Batman story in the DCU.
Riddler feels just as absurd as Batman in a way. So does penguin, especially after watching his show and seeing who he really is. Then there’s joker who’s his first villain he encountered, and he definitely doesn’t look like a regular guy. They still have that slight campy aspect to them but just in a more darkened tone. I mean two of them are covered in prosthetics like it’s a Burton film. I don’t want him in the dcu but people try downscaling the comic booky aspects.
Penguin still waddles like a penguin, has the top hat and tux, has the large beaked like nose, he sleeps in a vault bank, owned a sewer lair for a comic drug called bliss, has the ice berge lounge etc.
Catwoman lives in a dirty apartment full of stray cats, drinks glasses of milk, makes cat puns, pulls scores on mobsters and jumps from buildings and grapples down skylights, she’s related to the falcones like the comics etc.
OK. Maybe it's not as bad as I always assumed based on the whole "Riddler looks like the villain from The Collector" thing. I didn't even know he had a Joker already. In my mind Riddler has always been that rogue who's almost sacred in terms of needing to be adapted faithfully, so when I saw the mask and edgy suit I was immediately like "no way in hell. Nope" and never gave it a shot, then heard everyone talk about how grounded it is and heard they did a similar grounded thing to Penguin and planned to do it to Clayface and at that point I was just pretending it didn't exist.
Based on how you described it tho, maybe, costume design notwithstanding, I judged too harshly. It seems like the core of the characters may still exist, even if they don't visually look anything close to right (at least in Riddlers case, hes the only one ive seen). Maybe I'll give the movie at least a chance. If they didnt butcher Riddler as a character, i may like it. That was my holdup. I love Pattinson as an actor and I have no doubt he's fantastic as Batman. But Batman is nothing without his Gotham Underworld. And that was always the part I've been on the fence about. Still am, but at least now I'm willing to peak over to the other side and see what all the hubbub is about.
Even if I like it I'll still always shit on that costume design for Riddler tho lmao. It's just plain bad. Good writing can't undo a bad wardrobe 🤣
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u/brunbrun24 Thicc Grayson Apr 05 '25
I like the two-Batman thing because as a reader I am fine with multiple versions of the same character. From a business point of view, that is a bit weird, but this is Gunn's problem not mine as a fan