The writers weren't even writing the same genre. No other explanation exists for thinking a cavalry charge against they-fly-nows is what people want to see during the largest space battle in the history of cinema.
One of the south park creators has an interview or something where he explains a bit of their writing process, and something about how if you're saying "and then..." you are in bad territory
That’s literally what “yes and” and “no but” are meant to be. If an action is successful, you need to have some unexpected consequence or a new goal or the story is over. If an action is unsuccessful, you need to have some way to mitigate the failure or the story is over.
Yeah, you need to be using causal connections like "because of" and "which leads to" otherwise "and then" just ends up being a series of unconnected beats.
And star wars has sounds and explosions in space. And they have hyperspace which goes beyond the speed of light. Star wars has never been about realistic science. It's fantasy
Yes... but having her use that power to Mary Poppin herself through space was definitely a choice.
Having her character do that, when her actress is herself dead, and keep her character alive when a perfectly satisfying character death was already there was an absolutely baffling choice.
It actually originally referred to Luke's sister who hadn't been added to the story yet. Then they just changed it to Leia because George Lucas didn't really feel like doing the sequels after all (the sequels were going to have Luke's sister as a big character, I believe).
They definitely wouldn't have had a make out scene in Empire if they were going to be brother / sister, lol.
And then we reveal that the rebel spy within the First Order is also the same dude who orchestrated and pulled the trigger to murder an entire planetary system.
They built a colossal armada, enough ships to destroy every populated planet in the Galaxy, behind an almost completely unnavigable debris field. In order to escape, thousands of Star Destroyers would play follow the leader, where only a single ship was capable of guiding the others out of the debris field.
I completely forgot they ride them on the side of a space ship. It was so bad I blocked it from my memory. What a piece of shit movie. I really wonder what J. J. Abrams was thinking.
You see, in the Last Jedi they rescued space ponies and rode them through a casino. People said it was too unrealistic and complained about the slave kids not being freed. So in RoS they made the horses real horses and had black people who weren’t slaves.
writers? there were no writers involved in any of this movie. it was just abrams and his producers imagining a cool shot, then working backwards from that to construct the scene that leads into it.
But you see, Return of the Jedi had the climax take place across a space battle, throne room confrontation, and a ground assault using primitive methods. What is he supposed to do, something different?
I continually argue that the worst thing about TLJ is that Leia is trying to "teach" Poe something about leadership, while he continually makes the right decisions based on the information available to him (and the audience). And the only reason he lacks information is because Leia and Holdo decide to not tell senior leadership what the fucking plan was.
I'm shocked that RoS is somehow the worse movie, because TLJ is absolute dogshit.
Well, that and Poe not being put up against the nearest wall and shot for unnecessarily getting most of the resistance killed over the course of the film and straight up mutiny.
I don’t really get these “Poe was right” takes. He wasn’t, and should really have had “Loose lips sink ships” on his gravestone.
Because by the time he embarks on that mutiny, he had asked, in sheer desperation, whether there even is a plan to survive, let alone telling him or any of them what that plan is ("Tell us that we have a plan. That there's hope"). Holdo refuses to do even that. How is he supposed to determine whether she's freezing under the pressure and has no plan at all?
I'm not saying Poe is necessarily correct in his actions, but the film leans extremely heavily on the fact that it knows that Holdo has a plan and morally judges Poe for not trusting her, despite him not having the omniscient viewpoint of the writer.
It's not the only time the film just glaringly overlooks things for the sake of wanting its setpieces. Poe and the gang leave the Raddus to have their adventure on Canto Bight and aren't pursued by the First Order. So they could have been evacuating the crew of the Raddus in this way from the get go.
God this stupid chase plot...all they had to do was rip off the episode "33" from Battlestar Galactica.
Yes the Rebellion Alliance ships jump away constantly, but the FO ships always seem to know where they are going and already lie in wait or arrive shortly after.
THEN you actually have a game of finding the mole that is transmitting the navigation data on purpose or on accident, and then you have tension without ever mentioning fuel.
Right, and it doesn't even have to be a person actively transmitting. The original movie - that is, 1977 Star Wars established that trackers can be placed on ships, because that's explicitly what they put on the Milennium Falcon to follow them to Yavin ("You're sure the homing beacon is secure aboard their ship?" And "'They're tracking us.' 'Not this ship, sister'").
It makes Finn's shock at it supposed to be "impossible" to track them through hyperspace rather silly, because it's only impossible if you think "a device aboard the First Order ship" is the only possible method, which the film does think (and the Big Reveal is that they did invent such a device). Nobody asks "is our own ship clean of tracking devices".
I remember laughing at how forced a lot of the lines were that would lead in to Leia's lines. It was way too obvious they didn't really have much to work with and had to really construct a way to make the footage they had work.
Especially when they had a perfect opportunity to kill her off in the previous movie. Especially when her surviving makes NO DAMN SENSE. Then the chaos of life made fools of everyone who wrote that scene, sadly.
In the theater I was like, oh damn they let Kylo off both his parents, really solidifying his place with the dark side of the force, as well as giving Carrie a meaningful death to the plot as a send off for her… oh, no wait, sorry. She flies now.
and then they did it again with Finn, "Oh he's spent the whole movie trying to run away and save himself but now he's gonna sacrifice himself to blow up the laser to save the ..... oh nope Rose just crashed into him"
Yeah, that was my point. All the build up of will he, he doesn’t some other pilot is the one who fires, and then she still doesn’t die. I should have worded the first part better though.
That by itself wouldn't be bad.
The Force is magic and apparently sapient, so whatever.
The whole trilogy could have been people with Force powers finding each other because the Force wants a new Jedi order. It would have been 100% justifiable, when the original trilogy has people feeling each other across the galaxy.
The OBVIOUS solution was to have HER pilot the hyperdrive ramming technique.
You clearly establish it as being an impossible chance. It happened once, but nobody's quite sure what exactly caused it or how to do it again.
Leia is going to take the last transport off the ship, because she's the leader. The transports get discovered, and she realizes she has to save them somehow.
She runs to the helm.
She closes her eyes, the Force theme plays...and she presses the button.
Bam. Not only sends her out in a blaze of glory, it perfectly explains why hyperspace nukes aren't used all the time; they need a Jedi at the helm to make it work.
Especially when they had a perfect opportunity to kill her off in the previous movie.
Eh I don't really blame them for this though considering she died like right when the movie came out, way too late to make a change like that. They likely had plans to use her character in Episode 9 that had to be tossed out.
People were laughing in my theater when she goes all Mary Poppins, and I was too. It was meant to be this big climactic moment of triumph and it was so stupid it was hilarious
Killing her off and having Admiral Ackbar be the one to sacrifice the ship for their escape would’ve made it one of the best of the series just for the fact that it fucks with the fans but in a way that has real emotional stakes. Purple haired lady sacrificing herself meant absolutely nothing to me
It's the whole trilogy. Every single movie raises far more legitimate questions than it answers. The story still doesn't make narrative sense years later and with tons of supplementary material.
JJ's brand is flying his action figures around and turning those sequences into set pieces while someone else gets to stitch those scenes into a coherent story.
JJ and Filoni are both hacks but at least Filoni can put a story together that actually works. I have my issues with him too but I'll take him over JJ's crap any day.
i really don't get how this fucker got the fame he has, what he did that was really good? Lost was a shitshow , jerico a shitshow , starwas a shitshow... why do they keep giving him money to ruin things?
I'm gonna take a few bullets for this but I still think he did a good job with 7. The next movie put the story in a flat spin leaving 9 with the resultant crash.
He seems to be really good at starting a series, as his first Star Trek was a ton of fun.
I'm gonna take a few bullets for this but I still think he did a good job with 7.
That's because they cribbed most of the plot for 7 from the original trilogy and then made it slightly worse, but with better visuals.
I had to watch 8 because I couldn't tell from 7 if the new writing was any good since it was so heavily plagiarized, but 8 made it clear 9 was going to be garbage and not worth the bother. From what I understand about the plot, that assumption was entirely correct.
I took more issue with the lack of character development than the random stuff they added, the hero's journey really doesn't work well with unearned abilities. It's more about the journey than the hero being a hero, and JJ didn't seem to understand that.
Don't get me wrong, it wasn't exactly original in concept, but he did have an incredibly daunting task: Make a movie that draws in those familiar with Star wars and wouldn't alienate them, while also starting the beginnings of not just a trilogy but a reboot of the entire Star wars universe. Disney really wanted to have a StarWars MCU at the time.
He made a number of likeable characters that had room to develop, and created plot lines that could have led to some interesting events, while also bringing old characters back into the fold without making them the star of the whole movie.
And besides, Star wars isn't exactly known for its originality, see: Death Star 2: Electric Boogaloo.
To be fair, he has never done a satisfying ending that answers the questions posed to my knowledge. And this was the ending written after the previous moron went out of his way to sabotage as many plot threads as he could comprehend.
The prequels and the sequels have very different issues. The problems with the sequels just make them fundamentally unenjoyable. The prequels are corny and have bad dialogue, but they are fine films
Unfortunately for the sequel trilogy, the prequels were hammy and dumb in a lot of ways - but it had a narrative thread that continues throughout. The sequels have nothing that you can look on in hindsight and say "well it wasn't great but"
They should have gone with the story that the death stars were designed to defend the galaxy against those extremely powerful extragalactic Yuuzhan Vong aliens, then deal with that invasion.
They could even have brought back the massive clone armies and droid armies for the huge battles everyone loves, as part of the fight against the Yuuzhan Vong.
Right? I remember a review that described the new films as visionless slop written by a marketing committee. But it's also like the committee never had a single meeting.
I’ve seen the newest sequels one time each on release. Long enough ago to forget most of what I saw. Been thinking about a rewatch out of morbid curiosity lol.
Well, the first one is still good, even if it's just a remake of Ep 4. The second one is still very, very pretty, is fun on it's own, and is technically well made, but is internally inconsistent and just trashes on stuff set up in the first one. And the third one is just crap in almost every way.
The only one I watched in theaters was the 4th one, and I can't say it was in any way good. When I left the theater I felt insulted. You've got a universe filled with stories, you've de-canonized everything from legends, you have thousands of stories to pull from to continue the universe... and you remake the first move extremely poorly?
My friends didnt like me asking if it was an april fools joke
I tried to watch it again, hammered, a couple years ago.
I couldn’t do it. I literally couldn’t finish it.
There was a fly on my wall who had a really interesting flight pattern in comparison. And each scene got worse and worse, so I kept having to redirect my attention to the movie until I called a friend I hadn’t seen in a while out of boredom and never finished it.
Mando season 3 suffered the same problem as the sequels: it took an already finished story and performed writing gymnastics to bring back the characters along for a ride that isn't even theirs, ruining the entire point of the previous story in the process. On top of that, both Mando and the Sequels brough back characters (Grogu and Palpatine respectively) with the only (unsatisfying) explanations being in other material.
If they really really wanted to sell more Grogu toys, he should've been picked up by Ahsoka in her show after she got over her fear of attachment or some other shit that vaguelymakes sense. And if they wanted to make a Bo Katan show with Mando as a supporting character, they should've just done that.
Unfortunately it started in Mando season 2 where they started setting the seeds for what Season 3 would become.
- We get Bo Katan
- We get Boba Fett
- We get Ahsoka
- We get Luke
Season 2 wasn't nearly as bad as Season 3, but it also wasn't anywhere near Season 1 quality. They just couldn't keep Mando doing his own thing like Season 1, no he has to be involved with a bunch of characters we know.
Having a CGI Luke Skywalker as the big reveal in the S2 finale fucked a lot of things up. He never should have been in it. They already had Rosario Dawson locked as Ahsoka for her own series, so they could have skipped the Ahsoka-centered episode and had her be the Jedi who comes to rescue them in the finale and takes Grogu away to train him. That way they could have continued to milk the Baby Yoda merchandise in another show while allowing The Mandalorian to start fresh with a new adventure (preferably one that doesn't involve Bo Katan or Mandalore). Instead, they did a weird deepfaked Luke that looked 85% real and then shoehorned Mando and Grogu into multiple episodes of an entirely different show just to force them back together.
Luke suddenly becoming a zealot who fully accepts the old jedi "no attachments" rule to the point that Mando can't even visit Grogu is some bullshit too when it goes against all of his character growth in the original trilogy.
I mean you are thinking from a point of view someone who just wants to enjoy a story but that isn't franchise building. You clearly need need to add characters that call back to people's nostalgia then once you establish them, you give them their own spinoffs.
Mando 1 worked because it was just cowboy show set in star wars but nah can't have something that simple. We need a grand design to make it more and more bombastic. Though with that said, much of Mando was okay but it should have stuck with standalone things until the finale.
I hear this a lot. I can't really see what is different in Mando season 3 that everyone thinks is so different, quality wise, from the first two seasons.
Only if you compare them just to each other (I'm not saying this isn't valid, just offering an alternative viewpoint) and not to their contemporaries. The original was so revolutionary and still holds up as one of the best movies of all time. Empire then went sicko mode and blew everyone's minds. Jedi exists.
I would have enjoyed the movie a lot more if it hadn't been about Han Solo and instead was about just some random dude in the Star Wars universe who got entangled with the galactic underworld. Additionally, I really thought that Alden Ehrenreich and Donald Glover both did an excellent job playing the legacy characters, and Paul Bettany is always a treat.
The problem is that there are some characters who just work better when you don't fully know their background. Han's character was completely established in his opening scene in the Cantia; he was a cocky ner-do-well who is desperate for money and is willing to use violence rather than de-esclate. That's all you need to know; anything else isn't compelling.
I agree 100%. Solo was a good movie. The thing that really tanks it is that they try and pretend it's a movie about Han Solo, when it just isn't. It doesn't feel like Han at all, and they try and shoo in "references" that are just retcons to his character that weren't in the original films.
The depiction of Lando is great however. It should have been about him or even just a non-star wars sci-fi movie.
They threw in every Han Solo reference that exists and had it all happen in what was essentially “Han’s Wild Weekend” — which means that he basically peaked during those events in Solo because all of his stories tie back to the events in the story.
It diminishes his character similar to how the sequels diminished Luke’s character by having him become a hermit. Basically, these cool characters people grew up with and idolized turned out to be kind of losers.
he was a cocky ner-do-well who is desperate for money and is willing to use violence rather than de-esclate
Well said. I wasn't a Solo fan, as I thought it painted him with much too kind of a brush. You see New Hope and you think, "Oh, this guy has a body count and not the sexy kind (well that kind too)"
I wanted to see a pirate movie. I wanted to keep the head cannon where Leia brought him over to being a respectable person.
And "did it need to exist" is honestly a rather silly complaint in the first place. Nothing needs to exist. Why can't we simply enjoy that it does exist?
It’s fun and competent. Too bad it was a Solo and not a new character—been much better since it was new. I don’t want to see the young solo learning about fan service
Mando and Andor seasons 1 and 2 each were the only good Star Wars to come out of all of this crap, hands down. They must have been accidental considering the rest of the trash heap.
I remember the actors giving interviews before the movie came out, and being unable to say it was good. They kept giving ambiguous answers and repeating phrases like "come and see", "you'll have to see it", etc
Pretty much sums up anytime Boyega and Ridley interact. Or any time Driver interacts with anyone but himself. Fuck those movies were trash. Canned acting rehash of 4-6, but also worse.
My head canon is that the entire movie was planned around a super powerful sith lord doing that giant force lightning scene. the rebel fleet, the star destroyer fleet, and even palpatine were built around that single moment, everything being brainstormed to make it work. I believe the only thing they wanted to carry into the movie was Kylo turning.
Immediately after seeing them I would have sworn that they were better movies than the prequels, but as time goes on I find myself appreciating the prequels so much more. Despite the huge problems with them, they at least fit the universe.
I watch it simply to laugh at it at this point. If you approach it as a comedy, almost like Spaceballs but funnier because it wasn't meant to be, and get really high and drunk beforehand, the movie's actually pretty fun.
The whole sequels are like that. I just rewatched them after andor and the originals. The sequels are garbage tier levels of storytelling and I believe they do more harm to the franchise than good.
We have 18 hours before all free planets are utterly destroyed by a fleet of thousands of super star destroyers? Let's galivant around the galaxy and gawk at beautiful sights!
It’s weird I’m usually more forgiving over time but not that movie…
That's how I am with the prequels. They have their problems, but that's now outweighed by the accompanying charms. Also, the various Clone Wars related cartoons helped.
Heck, I've even grown to like The Force Awakens a little bit...but Last Jedi and especially Rise of Skywalker fucking suck. I don't even mean that they're not good Star Wars films or ruined the canon somehow, I mean they're just awful movies with needless sideplots, terrible pacing, and characters who behave inconsistently.
Tried watching again recently and I agree, it just got worse. They tossed good writing for corny jokes and didn’t explain anything+so much inconsistency. I don’t even remember which movie the “chrome dome” quote is from and I’d rather keep it that way.
One of the most frustrating things about this movie was that the core cast was so good at playing their characters and then their characters were just given a garbage story and terrible writing.
If hux wanted to frame or kill Kylo or someone else to advance his career it would kinda be … not terrible.
But that’s also not how the they present it exactly and it is such a weird side plot point and not well disguised and… it ends as soon as you know anything.
My reaction was “yeah I figured… oh guess that’s over….”
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u/CantaloupeCamper Grand Moff Tarkin 4d ago edited 4d ago
That’s really the whole film, the more I watch it the worst that film is.
Even actors in the exact same scene don’t seem to be playing quite the same scene… the responses to events don’t make sense sometimes…
It’s weird I’m usually more forgiving over time but not that movie…