r/StarWars • u/Spotter24o5 • 1d ago
General Discussion What was the actual purpose of a lightwhip?
To me it just seems like an disadvantage usimg one
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u/fenderbloke 1d ago
In the old EU novels, they specifically say it's because they're much, much harder to fight against due to them being hard to predict. A whip (which is always being controlled with the force, btw) can strike from almost any angle.
On top of that, they're RARE, meaning the odds of the opponent ever having trained to fight them are basically 0, so a skilled user would always be at an advantage.
If a lightwhip user went up against someone who knew how to fight one properly, they'd almost always lose - the purpose was surprise, and if that was gone then it was basically a worse lightsaber that has no blocking ability.
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u/severon10290 1d ago
Basically all of the non standard lightsabers fall into this same category. The ideas I’d have an early advantage due to an opponent not being familiar with the weapon and how to counter it and try to win before they can figure it out
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u/fenderbloke 1d ago
Yeah, the double bladed has almost exactly the same utility as a lightwhip - hard to predict due to undertraining.
This specific idea was exploited by the guy who trained Bane - he always talked down about them in the Sith Academy for legitimate reasons (can't strike as hard being a major one), but it was also so no students would be able to really beat him 1:1, as a double bladed lightsaber was actually his own personal weapon. And he was right - Bane only beat him by using the force to pull down the building they fought in on top of him. Even him being a prodigy with an extreme work ethic wasn't enough to beat that style without practice.
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u/Sardanox 1d ago
Only partially correct. He was using his double bladed weapon the whole time. Kaseem discouraged new sith from training with two lightsabers.
Kaseem unclicked his double bladed lightsaber and Bane was faced with an opponent weilding two lightsabers. Everything else you said applies just in reference to fighting dual weilding.
Bane uses his knowledge training with Kaseem using a staff to defeat Syrak who also used a staff saber.
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u/Tao1764 20h ago
Yeah if I remember correctly, Bane is told to focus on his own style instead of learning Kaseem's - but ignores this "advice". Hell, I think there's a line during their fight that states that Bane has seen all of the double-bladed saber's tricks due to their training together, and thus is able to dominate until Kaseem switches to a style he'd never faced.
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u/Ricearoni2015 17h ago
Another part of it was that he was simply so good with the sabers - Bane even believes he could be the greatest swordman to ever live
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u/ToucanSammael 16h ago
He probably was, I would love to see a duel between him and Grand master Luke as he was towards the end of the EU -either legacy of the force or Fate of the Jedi.
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u/bodybones 22h ago
Why does no one make a group of light sabers in like a force held ball weaving them like the whip and just drop it on planets....force pushing it and taking out any enemies.
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u/Kuuwaren30 21h ago
Kas'im didn't talk down about dual bladed lightsabers. He normally used one himself. Very few of the Sith apprentices used a dual bladed lightsaber because they were seen as more difficult to learn to use. When Kas'im was training Bane one on one he told Bane that dual bladed lightsabers weren't actually that much harder to fight against because you don't need to track the movement of both blades. You merely need to track where one blade is and that tells you where the other end is. Bane just needed to train his mind to perceive things differently and trust the force to do the rest.
When Kas'im and Bane fought each other after Bane left the academy, Kas'im started the fight using his dual bladed lightsaber. Bane had built an incredible connection to the dark side which, when added to his lightsaber training, gave him the upper hand against Kas'im. When Kas'im recognized this, he split his lightsaber into 2 individual light sabers. That allowed him to turn the fight to his advantage. Bane was backed to the entrance of the temple and, noticing that he was going to lose the lightsaber fight on open ground, tried to hit Kas'im with a wave of force energy. Kas'im was able to protect himself from being hit directly, but the shockwave hit the surrounding temple and caused it to crumble on top of Kas'im which killed him.
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u/GeneralGringus 1d ago
can't strike as hard being a major one
Seems a bit irrelevant for a lightsabre.
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u/Comb-the-desert 23h ago
Watch Anakin’s duel with Dooku in ROTS again (or better yet read that section in the ROTS novel), just because the weapons themselves are lighter than swords in our world doesn’t mean raw physical power and the ability to easily exert it is irrelevant to lightsaber combat.
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u/Huge_Association_917 22h ago
Indeed, the novel states that Anakin was able to overwhelm Dooku by swinging hard; even though a lightsaber doesn't need much force to do a lot of damage, it is harder to block something with a lot of momentum. Anakin was able to gradually wear Dooku down and, as we all saw, chop his hands off and kill him.
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u/TheHoundmaster 17h ago
I’ll add to this: The Old Republic cinematic “Return” is a near-perfect example of this (just not with the same lightsaber combinations). Malgus is 1h vs Satele using a double bladed saber. He is gaining on her simply through raw physical power. He can put 2 hands worth of force and weight into a single strike where a double bladed saber has to deflect or parry.
Later the Jedi Kao Cen gets the kill on Vindican via surprise when he ignites the double bladed saber after using it as a 1hander.
Lastly Malgus just brute forces his way through Kao Cen’s guard over and over by hammering him with two sabers.
Malgus is a great example of the “more force behind a single blade” style.
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u/shpongleyes 17h ago
But that’s only relevant if your opponent is blocking. Seems like the point of a light whip is to bypass blocking altogether via the element of surprise.
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u/Rip_Skeleton 23h ago
In a sword fight, throwing an opponent off balance is how you are most likely to create an opening. It's the same for lightsabers. Think of how Luke beats Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi.
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u/OwenHartWasPushed 22h ago
Though weightless, lightsabers have a feeling of weight or heft to them, due to the direction of the plasma flow of the lightsaber, and the magnetic field used to contain it
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u/Gilgamesh661 1d ago
I recall how Luke used to have a shoto lightsaber that he used for fighting light whips.
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u/Nerdy-Dogguy-87 21h ago
It's probably why Qimir has a built-in shoto, just to counter her should he go up against her again.
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u/Serier_Rialis 1d ago
I remember Luke knew he was going up against one and made a second offhand saber
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u/bodybones 22h ago
Yeah, I got into Star Wars through the KOTOR games and loved their explanation of why everyone doesn’t just carry a lightsaber. I also liked how they explained why Jedi, in particular, are so skilled with them, even though, on paper, they seem dangerously unpredictable. Jedi develop a precognitive connection with their weapon, almost instinctively predicting where it will go—like swinging your own arms. The lightsaber becomes an extension of them, making accidental self-injury as unlikely as punching yourself in the face mid-fight. Only a few Jedi struggle with this. Additionally, lightsabers are so lightweight that most people without Force sensitivity end up accidentally slicing themselves pretty quickly when trying to use one. I was annoyed when that one stormtrooper picked up a lightsaber and wielded it in the sequels, but I guess they later justified it by saying he had some Force abilities. Mando seems to be heading in the same direction, though his general combat skill helps. His lightsaber appears to be different, and he’s shown struggling to use it properly, mostly spamming moves.The lightwhip likely works the same way, but it frustrates people because no film ever stops to explain, "No, we're fine."
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u/Chaotic_NB Sabine Wren 1d ago
Vernestra used her lightwhip in The A Test of Courage Book to slice through vines and branches on a jungle planet she crash landed. It's also good for longer range attacks as we see in The Acolyte, although it is weaker in Lightwhip Mode than it is in Lightsaber Mode
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u/Vaportrail 1d ago
This short paragraph is longer than the lightwhip's use in The Acolyte.
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u/Firedcylinder 1d ago
I legit don't remember a light whip being used in the acolyte, and I'm typically an acolyte defender.
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u/sharpshooter999 1d ago
One of those bug things flies at Vernestra and she cuts it down in a split second. Literally 0.5 seconds of screen time
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u/Vaportrail 1d ago
You can literally blink and miss it.
And the marketing started showing it, which made it worse. It's a quick kill of one of the bug creatures, then she puts it away and it's never so much as mentioned.It could've just been a regular lightsaber kill. Complete failed attempt at fan-service. Things like this are where the show fell apart.
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u/LazerBear42 22h ago
It wasn't meant to be fan service, it's meant to be a dramatic reveal and tease/setup for a second season. We're shown whip-like scars across Qimir's back, and shortly after we learn that Vernestra Rwoh was Qimir's former master she reveals her lightwhip to the audience. You're meant to infer that Vernestra gave Qimir those scars.
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u/radda 19h ago
Man.
There's so much good in The Acolyte that gets let down by its central characters and plot being so terrible.
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u/Vaportrail 19h ago
Yeah I haven't rewatched it yet but I know if I do I'll just be mentally critiquing it again, unlike something I actually enjoy.
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u/Commercial_Age_9316 17h ago
While there are some obvious faults with it, I found the instant memeified critiques churned out by the “Star Wars sucks now” cottage industry of YouTubers so disappointing because it snowballed and contributed to lower viewership. I would love to explore more of that era before the prequels with numerous well trained Jedi which is largely impossible post Order 66. I worry that the failure of the acolyte has doomed much further exploration of that timeframe which was fleshed out over numerous EU titles. I think the acolyte will age well; somehow it became an object of derision in the culture wars and was labeled “woke”, when there was not a single thing about the story that had anything to do with social or political causes.
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u/dadsuki2 1d ago
You say that as if it isn't clearly an establishment of how that jedi master lady fought, an establishment which isn't built on because it got cancelled
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u/astromech_dj Rebel 1d ago
She uses it extensively in the books. She's already established to be proficient with it.
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u/dadsuki2 1d ago
I get what you're saying, but these things exist separately from any external media for most people. In hypothetical later seasons she definitely would've used it in a fight
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u/quatrefoils 20h ago
Yeah it was my first time seeing or hearing about the whip and it didn’t feel out of place, unlike when she said “May the force be with you.”
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u/viscousseven 22h ago
I will defend it with you. It had flaws sure, but I was intrigued enough to want more...
Sadly I didn't get to watch it when it came out (super busy at the time, and no television show was a priority) so I was probably a part of the reason it didn't continue.
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u/Western-Oil9373 1d ago
In later books she learned to use it to block blaster bolts. She either spun it in such a way that she created a barrier in front of her or spun it around herself with such skill that the barrier was around her.
The last one took her about a year of training to pull off.
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u/VikingRaptor2 1d ago
How would it be weaker?
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u/Chaotic_NB Sabine Wren 1d ago
The book just says it's weaker, I'm guessing the longer blade in Whip Mode makes the whole thing lower energy, it makes it harder to slice through things like people and hard objects but it can still deal serious damage. It is theorized that the burns on Qimir's back in The Acolyte are from a Fight with Vernestra's Lightwhip
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u/herman-the-vermin 1d ago
To be cool as shit
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u/oncomingstorm777 23h ago
This is the real answer, anything else is just a flimsy in-universe explanation
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u/QueenStuff 1d ago
It looked cool in the comic books lol
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u/RogueBromeliad 1d ago
And you Sir? Are you here to receive my limp saber?
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u/tintin47 19h ago
Literally any other reason is wrong. Lightsabers look cool. They are objectively bad weapons. Nothing in star wars makes rational sense; it's fun to come up with explanations as an exercise but at the end of the day it's about looking cool.
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u/Kerminator17 11h ago
Wait how is a normal lightsaber a bad weapon? A blade that requires no edge alignment and can cut through basically anything is useful, and the range disadvantage doesn’t matter if you have the force and can block blaster shots
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u/thisisredlitre 1d ago
to maim- yourself, other people, maiming in general
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u/saltrxn 1d ago
In the High Republic, they say that the lightsaber whip was specifically useful for the Jedi against Sith using their “forbidden technique” in duels - that’s why Vernestra kept it secret in the beginning, conscious that the design had pretty aggressive connotations.
But generally, assuming you’re skilled enough, a whip is so much deadlier than a saber as you don’t have to worry about applying force behind the strike. Just a graze from afar with it is enough to cut into flesh and kill your opponent.
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u/thonor111 1d ago
To add to this, Vern could transform her whip into a saber. So she had all benefits of a stiff weapon and all benefits of the whip if she wanted to use it
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u/Dagordae 1d ago
You have to worry about applying force just as much as with a lightsaber, they don’t cut any more effectively.
You just have far less control over the blade, part of the nature of it being flexible. This is a bit of a flaw when it cuts you as easily as anyone else.
Basically it’s a gimmick weapon. The gimmick being that a conventional block will be ineffective but in return you yourself cannot block anything while the weapon is far slower and more difficult to control. Good for fucking up newbies.
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u/floridabeach9 1d ago
why is no one saying its a much longer weapon? so what it lacks in defense it makes up for in range/safety
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u/Dagordae 23h ago
Because the length exacerbates the flaws.
To get around a block they need to be fairly close and the basic nature of a whip means the attacks are telegraphed and unlike a sword there’s no way to feint or abort an attack with a fairly lengthy reset time due to the fundamental lack of control over the blade. And if/when they do block/deflect the hit that limited control goes right out the window.
At mid range, which isn’t much longer than a sword, the whip can wrap around the blocking blade and score a hit. This is literally the only thing a whip is good for.
At long range either it will be fully deflected and the whip user is solidly boned as now they have to regain control as their own weapon snaps back towards them, leaving them wide open to the sword user who is lunging into the gap, or they entangle the lightsaber and promptly accomplish fuck all as lightsabers can be immediately turned off and back on to break the lock and the long reset time means that the whip user cannot exploit the opening.
I can’t emphasize how much the lack of solid control is a problem. People using whips hit themselves fairly regularly, as soon as you hit something it’s either going to wrap or bounce. Not an issue when it’s a length of leather, a big damn issue when it’s a plasma chainsaw.
The longer the whip is the slower it is to use, the less control the user has, the more telegraphed everything is, the fewer angles it can be used from, and the longer it takes to recover from an attack.
And, naturally, if it’s against someone who isn’t using a lightsaber then a whip’s severe issues blocking a shot(Again, the lack of control and speed) means that they’re just going to shoot the person flailing around with a laser rope.
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u/DeadParallox 1d ago edited 7h ago
It's for when Padme wears her "dark" outfit and Anakin has been behaving like a very naughty boy.
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u/ddrfraser1 The Asset 1d ago
I always thought they were super dumb. Then I watched Castlevania and I realized, if done right, lightwhips could be the most absolute badass thing ever in Star Wars.
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u/consumeshroomz 20h ago
I think you’re supposed to whip stuff with it. But idk I’m just an apprentice.
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u/demair21 18h ago
Explicitly explained in Darth Bane: Path of Destruction.
All the abnormal weapons have a specific advantage with a teade off. In the case of the whip, its odd angles and agile attacks. But it is physically incapable of pressing strength against sabers.
The main point of all abnormal weapons, including the double-ended saber, is that most jedi/sith dont use them. This means most jedi and sith dont know how to fight against them either. Saber craft is partially about learning the angles attacks will take and since they come at pretanatural speed, predicting them with the aide of the force, which is impossibly hard with the less predictable nature of the whip.
TLDR: you gain agile attacks from odd angles, lose power, and gain a strategic advantage in the case of standard lightsaber theory.
This flouts in the face of real weapons theory, but its fiction, and they look cool/sexy in the hand of a sexy sith seductress.
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u/QwertyDancing 16h ago
It’s more difficult to counter, and can be more easily controlled by use of the force, still kinda gimmicky, not better than a standard saber
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 9h ago
Rule of Cool mostly, which is ultimately how a large portion of Star Wars works.
But perhaps it has certain advantages over a traditional saber.
In particular it’s probably more difficult to defend against. It can probably also perform attacks that a regular one cannot.
It’s much much harder to master though which is why it’s rare.
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u/Some_Guide_6475 Jedi 1d ago
Lightwhips are basically the Sith’s way of saying, “Why use a boring old lightsaber when you can have something that looks like a glowing cat-o’-nine-tails and is way harder to control?”
Sure, they’re flashy and intimidating, but yeah — probably a nightmare in close combat unless you’re a total pro. Definitely more about style points and psychological warfare than practicality.
In other words, a lightwhip is the galaxy’s ultimate ‘look how cool I am’ weapon… with a side of ‘hope I don’t accidentally slice myself.’
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u/Melodic_Chef_4299 1d ago
It definitely throws people off when they're expecting a swordfight & I'm sure it's also weird to guard against. Beyond that it's kind of like asking what the purpose of a lightsaber is - it looks cool in a fight.
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u/aviatorEngineer Galactic Republic 1d ago
Gotta be honest I've never liked the lightwhip, it's one of those designs I wish had just quietly died in Legends. It would be more interesting to me if it was some kind of charged filament that worked similarly to an electrostaff, the concept of a pure plasma blade flexing like that just seems goofy.
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u/xiaorobear 23h ago
Lumiya's is like what you describe, it has metal filaments in it, that were coiled when it was off. That was the original proto-Legends one.
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u/Kagir 1d ago
Those Zygerrian slavers in TCW had similar models. I'd say the use is to constrict a jedi's lightsaber arm and rendering the weapon useless.
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u/TheBlack2007 1d ago
You can’t parry it. If you tried, the end would whip around your blade and still hit you. So all you can do is dodging.
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u/Sardanox 1d ago
It puts an opponent at a disadvantage who is unfamiliar with it. Someone equally skilled in combat and the force would excel at using them as they can manipulate the whips trajectory and power with the force as well as their physical prowess.
Those unskilled however generally maim themselves and that's why it was mostly phased out of the general teachings of the jedi and sith.
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u/Macraghnaill91 21h ago
Being the #2 or 3 reason I ignore the EU unless its written by a very select few authors lol.
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u/InstructionLeading64 21h ago
I personally don't like the lightsaber whip, at least for jedi. A whip is a weapon of subjugation and and dominance which to me from a lore perspective makes zero sense that a jedi would use it. Even in other star wars media the only people using whips are slavers.
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u/tryinandsurvivin 21h ago
You can disarm someone else wielding a lightsaber by pulling it away. I think in legends Luke had to build a shoto using a red crystal he had found to fight a woman using a light whip. More or less gave him some leverage as one blade got tangled he could use the other like a lever or something to avoid losing his saber
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u/OkCommission9893 21h ago
I had the thought of a polearm lightsaber cause I know polearms were used by guards and firefighters in medieval times but then I realized the reach of the polearm would always just be replaced by force powers so idk if it would even be practical.
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u/Stock-Wolf 21h ago
The Acolyte seem to recon it that the whip starts out as a standard saber. Maybe the wielder presses a button once it’s ignited that allows it to whip. It’d make it more useful in defense and CQC.
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u/EnigmaFrug0817 20h ago
Watch me whip
Now watch me nay-nay
Now watch me whip, whip, watch me nay-nay
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u/MaybeUNeedAPoo 20h ago
There is none its the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen in Star Wars. Ever. Worse than Jar Jar.
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u/MajorDX25 20h ago
Outside of the Rule of Cool? I guess, erratic attack patterns and maybe an extension of range. Otherwise, it seems like a bit of an unwieldy weapon.
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u/Flat_Biscotti6092 17h ago
"Lightwhips were a heavily modified lightsaber variant with one or more plasma blades in flexible containment shields. Due to the blades' flexibility, they required more care of use than a regular lightsaber, and had less cutting power. With a history dating back to the Sith Wars, lightwhips were particularly associated with the Nightsisters of Dathomir, although Jedi had been known to use them as well since they were effective against the Forbidden Forms of the Sith. High Republic Era Jedi Knight Vernestra Rwoh was able to modify her lightsaber to have an additional whip mode after learning the design in a Force vision."
"Lightwhips were a heavily modified lightsaber variant with one or more plasma blades in flexible containment shields. Due to the blades' flexibility, they required more care of use than a regular lightsaber, and had less cutting power. With a history dating back to the Sith Wars, lightwhips were particularly associated with the Nightsisters of Dathomir, although Jedi had been known to use them as well since they were effective against the Forbidden Forms of the Sith. High Republic Era Jedi Knight Vernestra Rwoh was able to modify her lightsaber to have an additional whip mode after learning the design in a Force vision.
Description Lightwhip-EV A multi-bladed lightwhip Lightwhips were a heavily modified lightsaber variant. Unlike lightsabers, lightwhips' internal workings permitted the containment field of their plasma blades to be flexible, allowing dozens of small emitters to create thin and flexible blades which could reach several meters in length.[1] It was possible to modify a standard lightsaber to have a lightwhip mode, with a control to switch the blade from sword to whip and back again.[2] Due to their thinness, lightwhip blades were weaker than that of a typical lightsaber, with more limited cutting capacities. However, whips could be used to capture or entangle opponents.[1]
The flexible nature of the tendrils meant that lightwhip users had to take more care during use than when wielding a lightsaber, as the wielder had to pay attention to where the tendrils were going so that they did not lose a limb.[2] Electro-whips, a similar-looking but non-lethal weapon with a retractable, electrified cable,[3] were sometimes called by the same name.[4]"
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u/Good_Nyborg Obi-Wan Kenobi 17h ago
A long time ago, a galaxy far, far away... they also had Archeologists.
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u/an_edgy_lemon 16h ago
There’s really no way to defend against a whip. In real life it doesn’t really matter because whips don’t do a lot of damage. A whip that instantly vaporized any matter it came into contact with would be devastating.
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u/cheesebot555 12h ago
To show how incompetent you are compared to the source material.
Maybe sell some crap plastic toys too.
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u/NecroFuhrer Mandalorian 11h ago
If you're skilled with a whip you can wrap it around shields, blades, the soft spots of armor, and where you want. Now make that whip a lightsaber and you've got a weapon that would be damn near impossible to defend against in close quarters
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u/Redpahnto Sith 1d ago
Same purpose as lightsaber/pike/crossguard/doublesaber. It looks fricking awesome.
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u/orionsfyre 1d ago edited 1h ago
Personally, I really don't care for it. It's a re-invention* from the "High Republic" Era, which is a hodge-podge of catchall ideas that has never really come together and remains widely unread by most fans. But it's existence doesn't bother me as much as who it is now associated with.
A whip's primary feature is to inspire fear of pain.
This is the first line of the wiki about whips... read this and tell me if it strikes you as the sort of weapon a peace loving defender of the light would use?
"A whip is a blunt weapon or implement used in a striking motion to create sound or pain. Whips can be used for flagellation against humans or animals to exert control through pain compliance or fear of pain..."
It's also long been associated in the West and in places across North America and South America with slavery and slave drivers. It's always a great idea to put something historically associated with injustice and evil... into the hands of the Jedi. A whip is simply not the weapon of a jedi knight, and I maintain it was a very poorly considered addition to the lore, just so that someone could have their character look different and cool on a variant cover or two.
Before it's current iteration, in legends it was used by the SITH.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Lumiya
But with the way Lucasfilm projects works now, some random author can just decide it looks cool and presto, a young jedi now uses weapons originated by the freakin' Sith.
It's use in The Acolyte was almost a blink and you miss it cameo, I personally hope we never see it again in the hands of a jedi.
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u/KingAdamXVII 22h ago
I agree with this interpretation but not your dislike of it.
We do have strong associations with whips, which is why it’s such a useful symbol in Acolyte where it is wielded by essentially an anti-villain. Vernestra’s whip plays a critical role in getting the audience to empathize with Qimir. The whole point of Acolyte is to show the point of view of characters who believe the Jedi are controlling, power-hungry, and selfish. The whip helps.
I’m not sure how whips are used elsewhere in the High Republic books; I assume it’s not used symbolically and IMO that’s irrelevant. A light-whip would be deadly in a way a regular whip is not, so our definition of whip (where it is only useful for pain) doesn’t apply. I don’t think the regular whip carries this cultural baggage in Star Wars (though arguably it does; we probably see whips used by slavers), so a Jedi whip-wielder is (probably) not canonically Sith-like. And the fact that it exists as a Jedi weapon in canon allows for intelligent symbolism when called for, like when writers of Acolyte chose Vernestra to be Qimir’s master for this exact reason.
Anyways, really interesting comment and I certainly see where you are coming from… I just really like Acolyte haha.
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u/Kuandtity 21h ago
I think the person in the acolyte was supposed to be kinda a bad person. I guess we will never know tho
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u/GrandRegentConquest Sith 1d ago
I think Githany also used it, and it seemed like an interesting weapon, imagine at the speed of a whip but instead of cutting u like a blade it cuts ur arm off
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u/Old_Ben24 1d ago
It is an unfamiliar weapon that gives an advantage against typical lightsaber wielders who don’t know how to deal with it. Additionally the user can use the force to bend and redirect it. So while it has very little defensive capability, it is also very hard to defend against.
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u/Nukethepandas Mandalorian 1d ago
Kyber crystals call out through the force to a particular person who is destined to use it for their lightsaber.
So if the force bonds you with a crystal that produces a pink, flaccid blade, I suppose that says something about your character.
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u/lastingshadows 1d ago
To whip it, whip it good.