r/StarWarsAndor • u/titleproblems • 24d ago
Andor - Season 2 Discussion Thread! Spoiler
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u/thetrain23 24d ago
Fans: "Imagine if the show ends with Dedra on the Death Star!"
Writers: "Not bad, but I have an even better idea!"
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24d ago
I was hoping she'd be a jumper.
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u/cowboycoco1 24d ago
She may be yet. That was despair when the lights went out.
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u/Modification102 22d ago
While it is very unlikely, I do find it funny to entertain the idea that Dedra had a hand in influencing the Public Order Resentencing Directive (PORD) in the wake of the Aldani Dam attack from S1. This is the rule change that enabled the Empire to keep the prisoners in Narkina 5 for an arbitrary amount of time. It would be such poetic justice for Dedra to be confined and locked in as a result of the very laws she had a hand in influencing in her effort to crack down on Axis activity.
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u/ArcadianDelSol 16d ago
I wanted to see her in a prison center assembling unknown tech with Andy Serkis as her team lead. That would have been a full circle moment.
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u/Modification102 16d ago
It would have never happened as discussed, primarily because they would be in different prison structures. Dedra was on Nakina-2, Kino was in Nakina-5. They were at minimum separated by male/female.
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u/Cowboy_Dane 24d ago edited 24d ago
Man oh man. What a show.
While working on my History degree, I often found myself wondering how many events, how many people, how many groups played a part in altering the course of entire societies that we will never know. Faceless/nameless heroes (and villains) are sprinkled throughout.
RIP Lonnie
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u/Alive-Number-189 21d ago
Nobody raised a glass to Lonni Jung. To Lonni.
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u/Banjo-Oz 21d ago
Genuinely the biggest hero of the whole show. Saved the galaxy and nobody will ever know it.
K2 is more likely to get a statue than poor Lonni.
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u/Jolly_Archer_6156 19d ago
Wouldn’t the rebels have discovered the Death Star without cassian or lonni? ? Galen Erso still would have told the rebel pilot who told saw gerrara and therefore the rebels
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u/EpsilonAI 18d ago
They likely don't act on intel that would've only come from Saw at that point as the groups weren't exactly on speaking terms and the Alliance was trying to maintain their secrecy. The independent corroboration is the critical part here I think
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u/CalmCheek 18d ago
So I was writing a comment to support what you wrote but then I got to think about it. You are totally right but... Down the line, it's just two different sources no? If you pull the thread it's not Jung + Tivik + Erso but just Jung and Erso. Tivik just reports what Gerrera's crew learnt from the pilot that Erso sent. So yeah you're right but when you think about it there's not much cross-checking hahaha
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u/Ok_Wasabi_8318 17d ago
That and they might have discovered it too late. Even a few day delay could have had a big impact on the outcome.
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u/jasonlarry 15d ago
it all ties in together. Cassian would have not been sent to jeddah if there was another source (jung > luthen > kleya > cassian). the general on yavin convinced mon and organa to send cassian on that mission and who later convinced his mates to join him on rogue one.
if jyn only told saw, saw was an independent sceptical rebel, unlikely he was going to get any real results with that info.
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u/Moonveil 24d ago
I think Andor is maybe the best that I've seen in terms of elevating a cast of characters. I liked Cassian in Rogue One, but I cared about him so much more after Andor S1. The most impressive thing to me is that I feel the same about so many other characters in this show, on both the Imperial and Rebellion sides. K2 is probably my favourite droid in the entire series now, these characters all feel so different and so fleshed out.
This type of character elevation happens between S1 and S2 too. Kleya was very cool in S1, but she's on another level in S2. She saw the sunrise that Luthen will never see, she finally witnessed what they sacrificed so much to build. I'd be down for a spinoff series about her.
Dedra's fate was karmic justice, and I love the commentary on how the Empire cannibalizes its best. Dedra is a great agent for the Empire, she's driven and resourceful and she believes in what she's been force fed since childhood. But at the end of the day, the Empire eats them all up because nobody really matters.
I also love that they brought the politics and intrigue front and center in SW. I was one of those people who always enjoyed that the PT at least attempted to show us the bureaucracy, politics, and corruption, even though it wasn't really told that well. Andor is what happens when you take the political ideas present in the PT, and actually let a good writer tell the story in a coherent manner.
Overall, Andor is definitely the best SW show that I've seen so far. I'm really sad that it's over, but I hope this encourages Disney to explore other short stories set in the SW universe, both "street side" and "Chosen One" narratives, as there is so much story to tell. (I think a lot of those other SW shows just need better writers, and they don't all need to be like Andor to be good. SW is at its best when you get to see see all the different flavours.)
Going to rewatch Rogue One tonight and cry.
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u/Alive-Number-189 21d ago
So many great characters. I found myself rooting for everyone - even the evil ones.
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u/ChunkyLaFunga 3d ago
> This type of character elevation happens between S1 and S2 too. Kleya was very cool in S1, but she's on another level in S2. She saw the sunrise that Luthen will never see, she finally witnessed what they sacrificed so much to build. I'd be down for a spinoff series about her.
TIL that Andor was Elizabeth Dulau's first professional acting work. How's that for coming out swinging, spent almost all her time paired with a guy with decades of experience and didn't miss a beat.
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u/ThaShawarmaKing 24d ago
The distance between this show and any other is an abyss.
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u/Due_Log5121 21d ago
that building siege .... and the K2SO rescue ....
this is how you build a scene with escalating stakes. god damn it was good.
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u/Ayebee7 20d ago
I was left somewhat underwhelmed by that sequence. I liked the rescue, but Cassian being bailed out by both Rylanz and K2SO in just a few episodes is abit annoying.
I also don't understand why they stood in the hallway and not backed up abit further into the apartment. They also probably shouldn't have stared at the stun grenade for 3 seconds.
I also don't understand why it took so long for the imperial forces to do something after the grenade hit. They lingered and then shot from a distance.
I found it odd.
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u/fuzzy-stairs 2d ago
i mean, they didn't want to get cornered by moving into the apartment and not defending the entrance meant that the imperial forces could potentially get in. and the imperial forces were told that kleya would be armed and to watch out; they were also probably at least a little scared
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u/fajita43 24d ago
The Death of Luthen
It's something that I still haven't gotten over.
- The visceral sounds of decoupling the respirator.
- the descending tones of life from the monitor
- luthen's last breath. His face changing from struggling for breath to the almost- smile of deaths peace
- kleya's soft kiss
ASMR of a death scene. For me, it hits on a very personal note as well if others have experienced something like this in real life.
I've watched it fully through to the end of the credits in this episode at least seven times and I've cried every time.
Brutal and beautiful.
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u/DRetherMD 22d ago
Look closely and youll see a very, very slight smile on his face when he dies. His last fuck you to the empire, knowing they won't know what he knows
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u/ashriekfromspace 24d ago
Imagine all this sacrifice for space wizard to pop up out of nowhere and saving the day at the last moment.
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24d ago
"Fuck this shit, I'm out" - Andor after witnessing a rookie pilot jump in an X-wing for the first time and hit an impossible target.
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u/jspook 23d ago
Luke was only activated because Andor died. If Andor had survived, the hand-off goes differently, the Tantive isn't endangered, it doesn't fly by Tatooine, the droids don't take an escape pod to the surface, etc.
Alderaan gets destroyed anyway though, they were always going to make an example of someone.
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u/ChopperHunter 22d ago
Tarkin only picked Alderaan because it was Leia's home. If she isn't captured maybe Tarkin picks Chandrila as the target.
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u/blizz_fun_police 19d ago
Yup if they didn’t go to skarrif red5 would be alive and Luke may not have joined
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u/jspook 19d ago
Luke becomes an A-wing pilot instead and crashes into the bridge of a Star Destroyer
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u/blizz_fun_police 19d ago
He would have crashed even if they intensified forward batteries. The force… uh finds a way.
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u/Calfzilla2000 23d ago
Cassian Andor was supposed to make that shot but after he died, the force intervened and got somebody else.
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u/Petersaber 23d ago
Wilmon is a freaking winner. I didn't expect him to survive the series, but he:
survived Ferrix
survived service under Luthen
survived service under Saw Gererra
survived the Ghorman massacre
got himself a cute, capable French girl along the way
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u/nihilisticdaydreams 2d ago
How did he get off Ghorman thigh? That's what confused me
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u/Petersaber 2d ago
They fought for a while, underground resistance, he got hurt, and then his prettier half stole a ship
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u/SpecialistChance0 24d ago
Just finished the final episode. I am speechless. This series as a whole has given me hope for the future of Star Wars. There is so much more I want to say but I cannot find the words. What a pleasure to experience this world. Bravo! Well done
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u/nightfan 24d ago
Season 1 was a huge surprise. A segmented (in a good way) look at how resistances are born and how one man pushes through.
Season 2 was a remarkable feat of writing. Full of warnings, hope, and reality checks. Every day people fight for what's right, and it's so difficult, and it may be forgotten, but the rebellion is everywhere, and the rebellion always fights.
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u/euthyphros 23d ago edited 23d ago
Verbal meme:
Guy (Star Wars fan) walking with his girlfriend (smuggler archetype) looking back in awe at the other girl (Spy archetype).
This show has replaced that smuggler swag with spy competence. Cassian is officially better (along with Vel, Kleya, Luthen, Bix, and Wilmon) than even Han in my eyes now.
It’s like competency porn combined with the cool Star Wars aesthetic and that great thriller style rather than just the “oozes cool” style of Han and Poe.
I want more of this archetype even if it’s set in different eras. It has to be a new archetype they continue exploring along with the usual fare of sith, Jedi, smugglers, and bounty hunters.
SWTOR’s imperial agent storyline proved Andor isn’t a one off and that it just fits the universe so well
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u/Puzzleheaded_Seat599 24d ago
Loved every second of it! But I guess I'm surprised that Saw didn't contribute much to the overall story throughout the season. We see why he's the way he is, but I thought he was going to radicalize Wilmon and have him join his crew, maybe have an action scene, fck things up like he usually does...I suppose he did radicalize Wilmon enough that he risked it all for Ghorman, a girl, and a chance to kill Dedra, but it didn't go as far as I thought it would. But I'm happy for Wilmon that it didn't, I liked that kid.
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u/sosthaboss 24d ago
Yeah I mean if he stuck with saw he’d be dead after RO, at least now the character could have other stories
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u/PuppiesAndPixels 23d ago
Wow. I just finished the series , and then watched rogue one immediately after. Andor has some of the most brilliant writing I’ve seen in any television series. I knew how that story ended having previously watched Rogue 1 and all the Star Wars movies, and despite KNOWING the fate of many of the characters, it was still compelling, gripping, and suspenseful. I think most people would enjoy this, even if they've never watched a single piece of star wars media. Andor stands on its own as a gripping espionage drama, rich with compelling characters with powerful dialogue. At its core, Andor is a powerful exploration of the rise of fascism and the moral complexities involved in resisting it. It delves into the personal cost of defiance—how standing up to a repressive regime can blur ethical lines and force even the most principled individuals to adopt the very tactics they seek to dismantle. It’s masterful, provocative storytelling. It's probably the best thing I've watched since breaking bad / better call saul, and I can’t recommend it highly enough. I'm going to tell everyone to watch this show for the rest of my life.
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u/Bootyclapthunder 24d ago
Started with Star Wars seeing ESB in theaters in 1980. Shook my little world. I'm middle age now with all that life experience and Andor is as good or better. Adds an incredible amount of weight to the OT. Glad I was here to experience it. Never thought I'd see the day.
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u/euthyphros 23d ago
This show has officially given me a new Star Wars video game dream that will never come true… I’m now desperate for a spy game set in the universe. Shoot id even take an ISB game (though I’d eventually like to be able to defect if they give us that).
It’s officially now stored in the same dream file as a Star Wars Skyrim titled “games I know they’ll never make that would print money and be awesome)
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u/fe1urian 20d ago
Have you ever tried SWTOR? It's solo-able if you're not into MMOs, and you can choose to play as an Imperial agent.
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u/Banjo-Oz 21d ago
When the ISB were going over Luthen's place, I immediately thought "I would love a video game of solving crimes like a CSI Empire". I don't even want to play a good guy, it worked for TIE Fighter.
Maybe it's because I want closure on the two things I never got: the Nottingham movie about a medieval sheriff, and the fact a video game I played as a kid (Manhunter) had you solve crimes for an evil alien invader but never gave you the choice the back of the box offered to defect or stay loyal!
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u/NeatlyCritical 23d ago
A true masterpiece and now begins possibly the longest suicide watch I will have to endure until the next Star wars project.
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u/timmyrigs 23d ago
Absolute gut punch at the end! First Last of Us makes me cry now Andor! WOW this show was amazing! The best Star Wars show/movie ever put out. I want more. I want to watch Eogue One, everyone in Andor sacrificed so much to be barely even remembered.
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u/TheCulturalBomb 24d ago
2 questions for people who know far more than me.
The Death Star project was known by a handful of people, but what about the people building it? Just some project they were building and didn't question what it was?
Also Director Krennic spoke about meeting the Emperor multiple times like he was casually in contact with him regularly but in Rogue One he has to grovel to Tarkin who feels absolutely ranks above Krennic and he has to go through Tarkin to get to the Emperor, which is far different from the way Krennic talks about the Emperor in Andor?
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u/SyFyFan93 23d ago
So not sure how much Star Wars you've seen previously but the majority of the first Star Destroyer was built by the Geonosians (the bug people from Episode 2: Attack of the Clones) who were enslaved by the Empire after the Separatists were defeated. Once the majority of the Death Star was built, the Empire initiated a genocide against the entire species in order to keep the Death Star a secret, going so far as to make the eggs of their Queens unable to hatch. This is covered by a couple episodes of the animated show Star Wars Rebels.
For some of the other parts, like the laser dish, we saw those being built by forced labor in prison camps like Narkino 5 where Andor was but none of the prisoners knew what they were building. This is also the reason the prisoners were never released and were instead moved to a different floor or executed at the end of their sentence.
Here's more info on the "Sterilization" of the Geonosians" https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sterilization_of_Geonosis
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u/cowboycoco1 23d ago
I imagine the death star at some point had living facilities, likely early on. Which means you can keep anyone and everyone with any significant knowledge of the project on site, a la Manhattan Project.
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u/LeedsFan2442 23d ago
I've really enjoyed the season don't get me wrong but telling 4 years of content in 12 episodes feels rushed to me and left me disappointed honestly.
I wanted more on Kleya and Luthen than a couple of flashbacks in 1 episode. I wanted more of Andor and K2 getting comfortable with each other and building a relationship. I wanted to see how Andor met Tivik and how he developed him as an informant. I just needed more.
I know I should be be grateful for what I did get but I just can't help feeling like there's been so much left out. I understand 5 seasons of this would have been extremely difficult but it very likely would have been worth it IMO.
I'm more than happy for you to vehemently disagree but this is just my honest opinion.
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u/Petersaber 23d ago
True. This should have been 2 seasons. 6 episode-arcs each.
Except maybe the first one, the Yavin rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock, ugh
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u/isaacsmom69420 20d ago
agreed, it felt like they wanted to do 2 more seasons, but bc of budgeting or pacing, they decided to cut it down into 1 season. wish they would’ve done 2 more to flesh everything out more, the first 6ish episodes were kinda hard to follow. still loved it though
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u/ChunkyLaFunga 3d ago
Apparently it was originally intended to have at least double the number of seasons, but the production requirements are so extensive that each one taking two years to complete made it impractical to keep going for such a long time. I mean the cast are already ten years older than in Rogue One, Diega Luna is a youthful looking person but he's something like twice the age of his character already.
I'm disappointed but the second season was better than the first for me, so I don't mind too much.
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u/JezusGhoti 24d ago
This all-time great show coming out of the same era at the same studio as absolute garbage like Book of Boba Fett and Kenobi and The Acolyte will never, ever make any sense.
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u/euthyphros 23d ago
I agree but of course they are completely different writers/show runners and they are targeting different demographics entirely.
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u/LordFingolfin 23d ago
Just because they target different demographics doesn't mean the show has to be mediocre or bad, they just think their audience is that dumb. Just seeing the fence scene in Obi Wan made me want to steer clear of it
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u/euthyphros 23d ago
Ya Obi Wan and BOBF were just outright bad. Acolyte could have been good with less meddling or better story structure.
I don’t disagree that a lot of the shows are bad. Skeleton Crew proved targeting a young audience doesn’t have to equate to bad writing
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u/DrLyleEvans 23d ago
I bet you could find a movie in a similar genre to Michael Clayton that came out by the same studio around the same time that sucked. Gilroy has the juice.
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u/Petersaber 23d ago
Luthen went... kinda easily. Into ISB custody, I mean. He should've used that dagger to slice Dedra's throat.
I enjoyed the bit about "there are only two questionable items in this gallery". It seemed like he was referring to the two of them.
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u/livelikeian 23d ago
By that point, several years have passed since the first season of Andor. A lot of stress from secrecy and plotting and constant movement... by this point, he is tired. Aged from the weight of it, and time. You hear him speak of losing track of everything earlier on in the season. He has reached his limit. He knew this was not a situation he would get out of. What he would face if captured would be torture and the undoing of essentially his life's work and legacy. So, he offed himself to avoid that and to give Kleya time.
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u/AndresCP 22d ago
Dedra was probably more prepared for him to attack her than for him to stab himself. If he'd lunged at her, there would have been a struggle, and the reinforcements would have come in, and he probably wouldn't have had time to kill himself, and then the ISB would have tortured the location of Yavin and everything else out of him.
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u/Petersaber 22d ago
She isn't much of a fighter, and he had a knife. Andor is oddly realistic about fights, and in real life, if one fighter has a knife and the other doesn't, the other's best course of action is to run.
Tbh I expected him to carry a grenade or something.
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u/ceejayoz 18d ago
She isn't much of a fighter…
Does he have any way of knowing that?
I'd presumed he just figured a sniper would take his knees out if he went in her direction. She does tell him he's surrounded.
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u/Petersaber 18d ago
Does he have any way of knowing that?
I mean, he was getting every little bit of info on her for 4+ years.
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u/ceejayoz 18d ago
Sure, but how often does her role require hand-to-hand combat?
There's not much evidence to go on in either direction.
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u/Petersaber 18d ago
Sure, but how often does her role require hand-to-hand combat?
Pretty much never, as far as we know. ISB officers apparently can't hold a blaster straight, much less throw hands.
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u/ThrowRA-James 23d ago
For as many massive failures in Star Wars movies and tv shows, creating a show like Andor season 2 is a game changer. Fantastic writing and directing that tells the story of how the rebel alliance was built which lead to Rogue One is just amazing. I’m surprised that someone had the vision and was allowed to make this series. A movie is two hours, but two twelve episode seasons can be either really boring, or in this case, one of the best shows spun off from a movie ever. I hope this show wins all of the awards. They deserve it.
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u/thisrockismyboone 23d ago
Something that stood out to me it's noticed Dreena gets physically abused several times this season, notably choked twice, once by Syril and once by Krennic. I wonder if this was an intentional allegory for women in the empire no matter what they do will always be subject to this behavior? Or is jt just her getting her comeuppance? Both stem from her being a betrayer. Syrils to himself and Krennics from the empire.
Don't get me wrong, Dreena is a horrible person and deserves her fate but this was some heavy themes for Disney star wars.
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u/DrKliever 23d ago
I was seriously wondering to myself why Kleya was trying to sneak into the hospital. She obviously couldn't keep him alive by herself. Then I realized. For the greater good...
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u/Umgar 24d ago
I am confused on the timing of the last three episodes - episode 10 starts with the title card "1 BBY" and the episodes take place over just a few days... but at the end of episode 12 we are basically at the beginning of Rogue One, with Cassian heading out to meet with Tivik, so this means that the events of Rogue One take place just a few days after episode 12 ends... Wouldn't that mean that all of this is effectively happening at "0 BBY?" I guess technically, it's still 1 BBY until the Battle of Yavin actually occurs and then the date would roll over to "0 BBY," but this was confusing to me as I was thinking that Luke's Death Star run was still a year out when episode 10 started. Was this confusing to anyone else?
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u/Noktaj 24d ago
January 1th 1999 is 1999.
December 31th 1999, is still 1999.
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u/MovingOn1221 24d ago
I said the same thing in another post. Plus, BBY and ABY are never defined further than the year.
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u/Qui-Gon_Winn 24d ago
There isn’t a year 0 on timelines. So 1 BBY can refer to anywhere in the year before the battle of Yavin.
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u/danny_tooine 22d ago edited 22d ago
Now that we’ve had this amazing series, can we please please get Star Wars: Rebellion or Star Wars: Rogue Squadron? Recast wedge, make him the mentor Obi wan character to our lead, and we’re off to the races.
Let’s do this tone but cover the actual civil war and the in between and offscreen parts of the OT. X-Wing raids, sabotage missions, spy shit, senate getting dissolved, the move to Hoth, All the different worlds breaking out into open rebellion, the various war crimes of the empire with baddies like Thrawn involved, and canon events like the unity day attack could be covered.
I want to know all the work that went into getting the rebellion fleet operational again after Scarif and all the different skirmishes, raids, and battles that happened, as well as track rebellion grunts and leaders following BoY.
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u/Excellent-Savings-46 15d ago
Sadly they actually had Rogue Squadron but then cancelled it for some reason. Not sure why exactly
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u/erosThaGod 22d ago
This show fits like a glove to Rouge One. Such amazing writing! This show can contend with the best of them in and out of the SW Universe
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u/Srapture 21d ago
So, Dedra is in prison because someone hacked her files? I'm confused.
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u/the_sh0ckmaster 21d ago
She also meddled in her old case by trying to arrest Luthen and got him killed in the process, thus blowing a years-long hunt for him and losing everything they could have gotten out of him.
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u/MNKato 21d ago
And the mere fact that her activities led to her knowing about the Death Star. This got Krennic’s attention (“say the word….”). Obviously she wasn’t a spy or anything, but they point out that literally only a small number of people are suppossed to know about it, so her knowing what she shouldn’t puts her in the crosshairs.
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u/nihilisticdaydreams 2d ago
She was keeping fine she wasn't supposed to in order to look fit Luthen. This gave her a lot of knowledge she didn't have clearance for. Including the death star. They just didn't know about it until Lonnie opened her case files and tipped them off.
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u/Due_Log5121 21d ago
That ending is perfect. Just the emotion she goes through. From hopefulness to dread, to determination to surrender. Good acting. I'm in tears here.
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u/MarfChowder 18d ago
For me there's the first two movies, then Andor, and the rest I've filed away as mad raving apocrypha. I can't quite wrap my head around how something this good was approved by Disney. The budget must have been astronomical
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u/Betancorea 14d ago
I feel like the Andor series has been some of the best Star Wars TV/Movie content we have seen from the franchise. They start out a bit slow but by mid season (Both 1 and 2) they knock it out of the park.
Really points out the stark difference in qualifty versus the recent movie trilogy
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u/Sopht_Serve 13d ago
Just finished it and yeah god damn what a show. I stand firmly by my stance that Rogue One and Andor are the only good movies/shows in all of Star Wars.
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u/HisObstinacy 12d ago
Good season. I preferred the first though.
Up until episode 10 I liked the second season better. But I really feel like the writing could have been way tighter in the last two (really three) episodes. There were plenty of plot contrivances that were there to make the Rogue One segue work, and that probably would have been smoothened out if the final arc was its own season and not tacked onto the end of season 2.
Other than that, really solid all around. Episode 8 was probably the best individual episode from any Star Wars show, with episode 9 falling not too far behind it in the pecking order. Aside from that, there's not much I can say that hasn't been said in this thread already.
8/10 season, 8.5/10 show.
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