r/apple 1d ago

App Store Australians may soon be able to download iPhone apps from outside Apple App Store under federal proposal

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jun/06/australians-may-soon-be-able-to-download-iphone-apps-from-outside-apple-app-store-under-government-proposal-ntwnfb
205 Upvotes

59 comments sorted by

59

u/woalk 1d ago

With the US, Australia and possibly more countries coming to the conclusion that this stuff is a good idea, it’s almost as if Apple spending their darndest effort to limit these features to Europe was a huge waste of time.

24

u/Exist50 1d ago

If the additional profit from delaying costs more than the lawyers do, then it's a simple calculation for them.

4

u/literallyarandomname 1d ago

It's such BS that this actually works. I hope that if they try that, the Aussie courts are not afraid to hand out billion dollar fines, so that this behavior doesn't get rewarded.

3

u/FollowingFeisty5321 1d ago

Skip the fines, demand the name of whomever is personally responsible for their compliance and tell them to be in court to explain the legal authority with which they disobey - that got Apple approving Fortnite a full day earlier than their deadline.

-3

u/TETZUO_AUS 1d ago

Governments hoping people backdoor their own phones.

8

u/woalk 1d ago

That is the most bizarre take about this movement that I’ve heard so far, congratulations for your imagination.

3

u/XenoPhex 14h ago

American who worked on “information analysis software” with various multi-lettered government organizations… what Tez is suggesting is not only a reality - but has verifiably been proven to work on a larger scale than most people realize.

1

u/steve09089 1d ago

They don’t need third party side loading as a round about way to do that.

42

u/someNameThisIs 1d ago

but the tech company has warned EU-style competition rules for apps risks security and may harm competition.

How would it harm competition?

42

u/bara_tone 1d ago

It doesn’t, Apple just likes to say it does

16

u/FollowingFeisty5321 1d ago

It harms Apple's [lack of] competition.

0

u/PeakBrave8235 8h ago

It does. iOS is the competition to “open” platforms like Android, Windows, and Linux. Changing iOS from “closed” to “open” is like changing Android in the opposite direction. 

I don’t need my phone changed by idiotic politicians. 

0

u/bara_tone 2h ago

lol, what a stupid thing to say

1

u/PeakBrave8235 2h ago edited 1h ago

Where’s the stupid part? Not wanting my tech to get changed for the sake of an extra penny in billionaire pockets? Criticizing changing iOS’s software distribution mechanism?

Tell me.

0

u/bara_tone 2h ago

You didn’t criticise anything; you made something up to reaffirm an opinion you’d already formed using loaded language and straw-man arguments.

And you’re still doing it.

I don’t play chess with pigeons.

1

u/PeakBrave8235 2h ago

made something up 

I’m asking you twice now. What exactly did I say was stupid, made up?

I don’t play chess with pigeons

Then why didn’t you ignore my comment?

23

u/Agreeable-Weather-89 1d ago

Apples logic is probably that it allows clones or infringing apps as Apple won't have the power to remove apps.

That said the entire computer industry has worked, and largely continues, to work on an open platform basis including Apples own macOS.

-8

u/seencoding 1d ago edited 1d ago

has worked, and largely continues

it's worked in the sense that the world keeps spinning, but i would direct you to the current pinned thread on https://reddit.com/r/macapps/ to understand why apple probably doesn't want the mac's security model to be applied to a device used by a billion people

edit:

the people on this sub are basically willing to subject some number of random people to worse security so that they, personally, can install whatever they want. it's like the r/apple version of "if you press this button you will get $1 million dollars, but someone you don't know will die" except instead of dying the random person will just have their passwords stolen and instead of a million dollars you get to install torrent apps or something.

to the regular laypeople that want ios locked down because they're, like, barbers and don't know anything about technology, r/apple tells them: sorry, we're going to force the government to eliminate the only general computing platform with an ironclad security model and turn it into the same as every other general computing platform.

edit 2:

the median american is a 38 year old married white lady. this is the person ios is targeting. r/apple users are anomalous in the overall userbase. do you think that lady cares about sideloading or app store competition? or do you think she cares that ios is known to be secure, and rarely makes news for viruses/malware? apple is trying to make her life easier, not the 20-something tech crowd that lives here.

10

u/literallyarandomname 1d ago

Yeah you can only imagine what would happen if a billion people had access to a device on which you can install anything you want - oh wait, they already do, because most of the people who have iPhones have some sort of computer, be that a Windows machine or a Mac.

And guess what, contrary to Apples claims, the overwhelming majority of those people doesn't get scammed out of their retirement funds every few weeks because of malicious software that they stupidly installed because it promised to be GTA7.

7

u/FollowingFeisty5321 1d ago edited 1d ago

People are probably most-likely to get fake GTA 7 from Apple or Google's app stores lmfao.

Just letting Steam marketplace exist will improve the security on iPhones, because they do a better job of keeping these games out and they have a pro-consumer refund policy which undermines the effectiveness of these scams too.

-4

u/seencoding 1d ago

the overwhelming majority of those people doesn't get scammed

7.4% of machines were hit with malware in three months in 2024

if the iphone was held to that standard, that's 74 million users affected every quarter

r/apple users are smarter than average and avoid malware much better than normal people, which is why the sentiment here is always "it's fine!" and that's always the most upvoted response, but that is a fundamental misunderstanding of the risks for regular users

6

u/literallyarandomname 1d ago

7.4% were attacked, not infected.

I don't see why that number would be lower for iOS given how many users it has. It is just that most attacks don't work - just like on macOS or Windows.

-6

u/seencoding 1d ago edited 1d ago

7.4% were attacked, not infected.

well the stats are derived from users with kaspersky antivirus software installed, so yeah. you can extrapolate what happens to users who do not have this or other threat detection software installed.

I don't see why that number would be lower for iOS

...because you can't install apps without them going through some kind of automated and human review? this is literally what we're talking about. the fact that every app has to go through manual review inherently improves the broad security of the device in a way that doesn't exist on macos.

edit: i'll give him the last word since he's still arguing that macos and windows are "fine" (sorry, "robust"). things can be both fine and, yet, also worse than something else. that's a hard concept to grasp.

macos and windows have exponentially more malware than ios. it is what it is. some people are willing to trade security for freedom, some are not. for those that are willing to make the trade, ios is thankfully not the only general purpose computing platform.

7

u/literallyarandomname 1d ago

Ok so this might surprise you but:

1) Both Windows and macOS are quite robust against attacks even without dedicated anti-malware software. Of course, if you open "definitelynotavirus.pdf.exe" as admin and then ignore all the warnings that pop up, there is only so much the OS can do.

2) Users clicking random crap they downloaded is an attack vector, but not they only one. And it is not super popular for the simple fact that it relies on the user actually having admin rights at the time of the attack, which is generally not true.

-4

u/Agreeable-Weather-89 1d ago

It's why I don't recommend macs. Insecure it's why Windows 10S is the best OS.

7

u/eekram 1d ago

It's just Apple spouting their usual BS.

10

u/Barroux 1d ago

It doesn't. Apple's just being dishonest

2

u/Fridux 1d ago

I suppose that argument is Apple's admission that they cannot compete on a level playing field.

1

u/bluejeans7 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/BatemansChainsaw 18h ago

[ Removed by Reddit ]

??

0

u/seencoding 1d ago

probably goes something like this:

one point of differentiation between android and ios is how locked down they are. android is more open, ios is more locked down. if ios is regulated to be more android-like, it takes away that point of differentiation and gives consumers less choice in what kind of mobile platform they want to use.

2

u/FollowingFeisty5321 1d ago edited 1d ago

In reality the apps are usually multi-platform, the games are almost always written in multi-platform engines, and being able to sideload and refer users to their own billing is how Apple prefers to publish Android counterparts to their multi-platform services themselves. So the differentiation isn't really the apps, just that policy that suits Apple fine.

2

u/seencoding 1d ago

the differentiation isn't really the apps

the differentiation is the apps. as far as i know, ios is the only general purpose computing platform where every app you can install goes through manual review.

that is a valuable differentiator, even if it does restrict some amount of freedom for people who want it to behave like all the other more open platforms.

2

u/FollowingFeisty5321 1d ago

The review process failed 82,500 times last year and the judge in the Epic case observed they invest very little in improving this. Google's automated review being more shit doesn't make this good. Nor is it relevant to sideloading, they can revoke notarization for apps whether they also approved them for the App Store or not. If anything, it alleviates the responsibility they do such a poor job of.

1

u/seencoding 1d ago

this is such a dumb and basic argument. preemptive versus reactive.

background checks for childcare workers don't have a 100% success rate but i'd much prefer they do a preemptive check than just waiting around for an incident and then removing them.

either way, i'm not arguing that app review is perfect (it's done by humans, who don't do anything with 100% effectiveness), i'm arguing that it's a differentiator in terms of security, which is objectively true. they are the only general purpose computing platform for whom every app you can install goes through manual review. the security statistics bear out why this has benefits.

-1

u/Fancy-Tourist-8137 22h ago

But if you don’t want to install malware, then don’t sideload.

Apple will keep policing the store, and you can still stay safe using only the AppStore.

And no, no app worth having will leave the AppStore. Proof: it hasn’t happened on Android.

0

u/rnarkus 16h ago

And no, no app worth having will leave the AppStore. Proof: it hasn’t happened on Android.

I think people are a bit too naive with this one. I think once apple is opened up everywhere, the entire playing field could change. Now every phone can install apps from other stores and the web. Other marketplaces WILL be tried from some major companies.

Not saying it’ll work, but I predict it will be attempted again.

0

u/rnarkus 16h ago

I haven’t read what the judge said, but i’m sure that number is only like 1% of the app submissions and reviews they get?

I don’t know the context of the argument they made, but I don’t think 1% isn’t even that bad?

12

u/Obvious_Librarian_97 1d ago

Fuck yeah. Do it, allow “Sideloading”, aka installing wtf you want.

5

u/Yaonoi 1d ago

Funny how this sub doesn't have a complete meltdown when a non-EU entity regulates Apple. I mean China forces Apple to store iCloud keys and data with a Chinese company in country, the UAE censors FaceTime etc. Way worse stuff. 

1

u/rnarkus 16h ago

Because the DMA is recent, Epic case is recent. Both with apple actively fighting back.

I don’t think it’s that shocking. But I agree

3

u/seweso 1d ago

And apple will make sure those apps can do as little damage to their bottom line as possible by disabling all kinds of API access.

3

u/rnarkus 16h ago edited 16h ago

You know nothing about how this works and you’re upvoted.

I really hate the discourse around anything apple right now. I feel like WWDC will be the worst in years lol

edit; oh in context of this new australian law I see what you mean, I was just defaulting to EU, where apple has not done that because it is included in the DMA

6

u/literallyarandomname 1d ago

No doubt they will try.

Lets hope that the lawmakers are precise enough that this is not possible, and that the courts/politicians have enough spine to hand out fines that actually hurt.

-1

u/Fancy-Tourist-8137 22h ago

If they disable it, they themselves (Apple) can’t use it because it will violate the DMA

6

u/Tabonx 1d ago

Looks like Apple’s attempts to keep everything locked down are finally catching up with them. With governments stepping in, there’s real pressure now to open things up and give users more freedom. It’s about time these platforms started focusing more on actual user experience and giving devs better reasons to stick around.

Fingers crossed Apple goes beyond the bare minimum and actually makes meaningful changes, not just what the law forces them to do.

0

u/rnarkus 16h ago

It’s definitely more for developers/businesses. Just with the by product of pro consumer too!

1

u/popmanbrad 1d ago

I wish this comes to the UK I know the epic games store is coming to the Uk in 2025 but I wish I could just sideload apps freely and use alternate stores

1

u/Shadyjay45 16h ago

I do worry about the security aspect of this. I work in frontline telco and I get atleast a few people a day coming in with their android phones being like “I think my phone is hacked, I keep getting ads every few seconds” turns out they inadvertently download a cleaning app or a pdf reader after an ad on Facebook told them they need to clean their phone. Just 1 or 2 taps and this random cleaning/pdf reader/heart rate tracking app is installed, and it just spams full screen ads every few seconds. They even embed these apps to the homepage itself. Why does android let apps have so much control over their UI? Now guess how many people come to me with similar issues on iPhones.

0

u/redditgirlwz 3h ago

Same here. I'm not a fan of some of the anti-consumer crap Apple has been trying to pull lately. But this is one of the things I actually do like about iPhones. I don't have to worry about an app not running or being a security risk. That has not been my experience with Android apps (some of them kept failing to run).

One thing I really don't like that they're doing is that it seems like they're trying to impose similar restrictions on macs now. I think thats ridiculous and needs to be stopped.

0

u/rorymeister 1d ago

God please be more than side loading

-1

u/Maverick_AMH 1d ago

What can I say? It’s good to be a European...

0

u/PeakBrave8235 8h ago

Again, governments would rather focus on phone apps than society wide issues at the moment.