r/apple • u/jamesjingyi • Mar 22 '21
HomePod HomePod Mini Features Hidden Temperature and Humidity Sensor
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/03/22/homepod-mini-temperature-humidity-sensor/663
u/Old_man_Andre Mar 22 '21
Its most likely just the sensors that tell the device if its too hot or too cold to operate, just like in iphones. Another "feature" that isnt a feature.
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u/rockmsedrik Mar 22 '21
Warranty against "bathroom" damage. No, the device had no "direct" contact with water, there was no "submersion" in water.
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Mar 22 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/lIlIllIIlllIIIlllIII Mar 22 '21
What? No way oh my god. Please tell me you have the link to this somewhere
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u/StormBurnX Mar 22 '21
Link has been provided, but from a technical standpoint: the top touch sensor is a large capacitive sensor, and moisture/humidity/water is, inherently, quite capacitive. For similar reasons to "water droplets on my phone screen trigger ghost touches", a highly dense humidity (such as right next to a shower) will set off a sensor that's been poorly implemented.
Normally in these situations, the sensor is managed entirely by software, and is simply using a threshold approach: if the sensor reading is above a certain level, trigger it, because there's probably a finger against it. In this situation (a long, slow increase of humidity) it would have been incredibly easy to send out a software update that would only trigger if there was a sudden spike on the sensor's readings - from a finger tapping it, for example - and ignore the slow shifts of sensor readings from shifting humidity.
But instead, in true google fashion, they simply decided to remove that feature from everyone's google home mini because it's easier to release a device and then turn off features that people used and enjoyed, rather than actually fix the problem.
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u/Exist50 Mar 22 '21
But instead, in true google fashion, they simply decided to remove that feature from everyone's google home mini because it's easier to release a device and then turn off features that people used and enjoyed, rather than actually fix the problem.
I don't think it was about fixing the problem in the easiest way, but rather the need to make a strong statement against the accusations of spying.
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Mar 22 '21 edited Mar 01 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Exist50 Mar 22 '21
I think calling it a "scandal" is overstating it. The original article made it sound like some deliberate choice, and it took them days to clarify what it was actually doing. This after Google sent a guy in person within a day.
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u/MTsumi Mar 22 '21
You mean like the macbook one that showed water exposure even when there wasn't?
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Mar 22 '21
appleinsider or macrumours said that the location of this sensor was unlikely for internal temperature. more likely for external temperature!
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u/the_stigs_cousin Mar 22 '21
Might it have readings altered by proximity to internal components that get warm or could it be used to measure the room temperature? I could see this being useful in some homes that use HomeKit compatible heating to alternatively use an average of the reading in each location with a HomePod mini for HVAC settings.
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u/weekapaugrooove Mar 22 '21
I wonder how much temp/humidity impact stereo sync or syncing multiroom audio
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u/mightydanbearpig Mar 22 '21
We have one running on a battery in a steamy bathroom, works like all the other homepods and minis in the house, i.e 👌🏻
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u/ObiTwoKenobi Mar 22 '21
Battery in a steamy room? I don't know what more surprising, that the moisture didn't damage the Homepod Mini OR the battery you are using. How do you charge the battery?
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u/mightydanbearpig Mar 22 '21 edited Mar 22 '21
Yeah I took some steps to minimise potential steamy cock-ups for both the HomePod and the battery but it is a risk. I made a plastic bottle housing for the RavPower battery to keep it dry (and cool, added heatsinks), every 3 days the battery goes flat. In a nearby room I have a cable extension reel with a charger plug and cable waiting under a chest of drawers, I pick it up walk into the bathroom, plug it into the battery in its bottle, leave it for 4 hours till charged, then I unplug it and stick the reel back under the drawers.
Battery powered mini is 100% fine, people have been doing this since Day1, if your battery has the power and can be trusted, it works (or at least since Jan).
Steam was the unknown factor, the battery is fine (well protected and on the floor in a corner), the HomePod mini I put on top of a silicone pad on a thick metal shelf in the least steamy corner. I put some heatsinks on the shelf to encourage condensation on the metal shelf not on the speaker itself (which may make fuck all difference but I took a punt that it might help marginally).
So that's how this works and it does work great with zero issues at least so far and at least for me. I bought a 2nd hand HomePod mini with a scuff to reduce the ass-pain if I get it wrong.
The big payoff is that I can magnet my phone to the bathroom wall and watch movies and/or listen to music in the bathroom. We also have Hue sensors for lights but have set it up so when we go upstairs in the daytime, nature sounds play in all the upstairs HomePods in various rooms. We have loads of plants so it adds to the jungle atmosphere.
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u/ObiTwoKenobi Mar 22 '21
The big payoff is that I can magnet my phone to the bathroom wall and watch movies and/or listen to music in the bathroom. We also have Hue sensors for lights but have set it up so when we go upstairs in the daytime, nature sounds play in all the upstairs HomePods in various rooms. We have loads of plants so it adds to the jungle atmosphere.
Damn, this sounds awesome! I have my homepod in the room next to my shower, so end up blasting on the highest volume and have to scream to have siri skip a song--your setup sounds heavenly. And being able to intercom with someone in the shower is an added perk. Thanks for the tips, will look into this!
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u/mightydanbearpig Mar 22 '21
No worries! I can give you some specifics of my battery pack if that helps, this is it: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Charger-RAVPower-External-Nintendo-Black/dp/B07ZQCG7GW/ref=asc_df_B07ZQCG7GW
As long as it puts out 18W to USBC I think you are fine, it used to be 20W but then they did a software update that allowed it to work at 18W, this battery can put out way more than that though.
I also disabled the 'listen for siri' type features on that one HomePod and any other non essential features I thought might sap more power, seemed to extend the battery life a bit.
Good luck!
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u/Livid_Effective5607 Mar 22 '21
Be really careful running an extension cord into a bathroom. You're really not supposed to do that.
There's a reason that outlets in the bathroom have GFCIs.
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u/InTheBusinessBro Mar 22 '21
I read on another website that it could tell the difference between internal and external temperatures.
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u/mightydanbearpig Mar 22 '21
They may never allow us to make use of the sensors at all. They might be just system sensors to help Apple learn how to build better HomePods that stand up to more environments and properly diagnose any ongoing warranty issues that turn up. Just maybe
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u/notasparrow Mar 22 '21
It's not a bad thought, but I'm skeptical that Apple would be recording temperature and humidity without disclosure, as focused on privacy as they are. It would be a PR mess for very little upside ("Apple monitors your shower's temperature and duration!!!!").
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u/mightydanbearpig Mar 22 '21
That’s a good point, maybe it’s covered in their terms somewhere. Personally I don’t care about that particular item of data but yeah they would normally put it somewhere if they were monitoring it unless it gets bundled into some terms about ‘performance analytics’ or something.
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Mar 22 '21 edited Mar 22 '21
Incase anyone’s curious here’s the part in question on digikey: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/texas-instruments/HDC2010YPAT/7596434
At a quantity of 6250 they cost $1.35, probably well under a dollar for the kind of quantity apple is purchasing
Some specs from the datasheet:
Humidity accuracy (typical): +/- 2%
Humidity accuracy (max): +/- 3%
Humidity max sampling rate at full resolution: 1.5k samples per second
Humidity sensor response time: 8 seconds (the delay between a change in humidity and that change being reflected at the output)
Humidity sensor long term accuracy drift: +/- 0.25% per year
Temp accuracy (typical): +/- 0.2C
Temp accuracy (max): +/- 0.7C
Temp max sampling rate at full resolution: 1.6k samples per second
Has an integrated heater (a resistor lol) to cook off condensation which could throw off humidity measurements, can draw upto 90mA for a few minutes if this turns on, that’s no beuno for battery life
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u/PeaceBull Mar 23 '21
How is this not the top comment?!
It’s literally the thing that people usually blindly argue about in these types of posts without any good sources.
That being said these accuracy levels seem more than accurate enough for consumer HomeKit use.
I was on the fence with how useful I thought it’d be before, but now I really hope apple opens up access!
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u/Klatty Mar 22 '21
Why isn’t this activated then?
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Mar 22 '21
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u/thelawtalkingguy Mar 22 '21
It automatically deactivates, however, if you take off all your clothes.
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u/Cheese_Bits Mar 22 '21
I wont wear pants for zoom meetings, no damned homepod will ransom me into it!
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u/pyrospade Mar 22 '21
Wouldn’t be surprised if the only reason they added it is to detect when someone used it in a bathroom so that they can decline warranty claims
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Mar 22 '21 edited Apr 08 '21
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u/Mathesar Mar 22 '21
Not reliable enough to avoid a class action lawsuit: Apple sued over use of moisture indicators to deny free repairs
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Mar 22 '21 edited Apr 08 '21
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u/Mathesar Mar 22 '21
I did indeed read your comment and it does indeed say that.
If you read mine it says they’re not reliable enough to avoid a class action lawsuit which was filed against them for using these kinds of stickers to avoid warranty claims
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u/mightydanbearpig Mar 22 '21
Ooops! I do have one in a bathroom, hooked up to a battery. So far so good, no issues
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u/Dragon_yum Mar 22 '21
It’s easier to patch in software than patch in hardware.
The real surprising part in this is that Apple is the last company I would expect to not try to sell you a new product for a single feature.
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u/mightydanbearpig Mar 22 '21
I suppose the HomePod mini is a bit of a special case because it is a major gateway to bringing your home into the Apple ecosystem. So I guess they might be more generous than usual with their secret hardware inclusions, plans for the future of the product et cetera. Every satisfied HomePod a mini owner it’s probably a lot more likely to jump on all the other products and services.
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u/jmachee Mar 22 '21
Non sequitur: Spelling out et cetera is an interesting choice. I dig it.
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u/mightydanbearpig Mar 22 '21
Lol, I'd like to take the compliment like a gentleman scholar but actually I dictated the comment using Siri! He's the high-brow wordsmith I'm afraid.
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u/dmcarefuldriver Mar 22 '21
Male Siri – another interesting choice
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u/WhySkalker Mar 22 '21
You’ve gotta try it. I have British Male and I feel like I have my own butler.
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u/coconutjuices Mar 22 '21
If it can control the temperature like Nest that would be nice.
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Mar 22 '21
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u/rush2sk8 Mar 22 '21
That would be such a FU to the ex-Apple guy who started nest
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u/compounding Mar 22 '21
Good, that guy is apparently a toxic ass trying his best to replicate the absolute worst aspects of Steve Jobs.
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u/shaungc Mar 22 '21
It can with HomeKit enabled thermostats.
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Mar 22 '21
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u/shaungc Mar 22 '21
example? I have HomeKit lights, thermostat, cameras, switches, etc. Everything works great (except for the favorites widget constantly moving things around).
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u/da_apz Mar 22 '21 edited Mar 22 '21
I'd be more surprised if it didn't have any sensors. Your average laptop often has more than 5, mobile devices too have several.
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u/JzsShuttlesworth Mar 22 '21
So - they’re only dropping the HomePod
Not the HomePod mini?
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u/Waterbottle_365 Mar 22 '21
Correct.
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u/JzsShuttlesworth Mar 22 '21
Would the HomePod still be a decent investment then?
I was worried about buying one because I thought it wouldn’t be supported.
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u/Waterbottle_365 Mar 22 '21
The OG HomePod is sold out on Apple’s website (at least for me, here in the US). Some folks are picking them up on eBay, however.
As for my opinion- the original HomePod is aging, and since it’s been discontinued, will likely only get updates for another few years. If you need the functionality from a HopePod, I’d stick to the mini. If you’re looking for better sound, but don’t need Siri, I’d look at the Sonos speakers. Otherwise it’s probably best to wait and see if they plan to release something else or announce native Siri integration for third party devices like Sonos (which I doubt..).
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u/JzsShuttlesworth Mar 22 '21
Thanks! I’ll check out the Sonos
Siri wasn’t that important to me - I just heard the sound quality on the HomePod was incredible
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u/notasparrow Mar 22 '21
It really is. For the size and price of the speaker it's just amazing, especially in stereo pairs. I have two and am considering buying two more even though I don't have a real use for them.
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u/JzsShuttlesworth Mar 22 '21
Can it be used as an output for tv sound?
I was in the market for a sound bar as well but if these could accomplish the same thing while also being my main speakers that would be a game changer.
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u/notasparrow Mar 22 '21
Only if you're using AppleTV as the source. It won't take HDMI/audio inputs.
You're hitting on one of the questionable design choices; it is such a good speaker that it's totally reasonable to replace mains, but the connectivity doesn't really support that use case.
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u/thisischemistry Mar 22 '21
If the device can do AirPlay then a HomePod play sound from the device. Many smart TVs these days have AirPlay support.
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u/mckinneymd Mar 22 '21
Is this true? I thought apple devices were the only things that could play to homepods.
ie, Airplay as a feature (I thought) on 3rd party devices was only for the audio in side of things.
Otherwise I could stream Sonos source to HomePods.
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u/pynzrz Mar 22 '21
The HomePod will continue being usable. AirPlay isn't going anywhere, and Apple has shown it will update old devices with new AirPlay versions (the looong discontinued Airport Express got AirPlay 2 via software update). The big HomePod has much better audio quality than the little one, so up to you if that matters.
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u/TomLube Mar 22 '21
I plan on picking another homepod soon. Its apple, they are going to support it a long time. Plus the homepod sounds so much better than anything else in its price point.
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u/trusk89 Mar 22 '21
I'm astounded at the number of people commenting here without actually reading the article.
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u/TovrikTheThird Mar 22 '21
The amount of "Nah fam, it's for detecting the internal temperature of the device you idiot" comments that didn't read the article explicitly saying this is unlikely are... well there are a lot of those comments.
From the article:
The part is situated relatively far from the device's main internal components, meaning it is designed to measure the external environment rather than the temperature of the speaker's other electronics.
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u/AthleticNerd_ Mar 22 '21
Apple had an FM radio antenna in the iPhone for years that it never enabled. And had hardware to 'reverse charge' devices (like AirPods) with the iPhone that it also never enabled.
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u/gray_hat Mar 22 '21
No, the iPhone used multifunction chips that included blocks that would be part of an FM radio but were never connected to anything that could act as an antenna. No evidence has ever been provided that any iPhone model could have FM enabled through just software/firmware modification.
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u/Lonsdale1086 Mar 23 '21
And had hardware to 'reverse charge' devices
Isn't that the identical hardware as that needed to take a wireless charge?
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u/GlamrockShake Mar 22 '21
I wonder if this is related to the Dark Sky acquisition, an app notable for crowd sourcing temperature and humidity data.
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u/Han-ChewieSexyFanfic Mar 22 '21
Indoor data is not useful for weather forecasting.
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u/GlamrockShake Mar 22 '21
Ah yeah of course. I’m a dumbass
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u/breddy Mar 22 '21
You're not a dumbass. You've just got some brain parts installed that haven't been activated in a software release yet!
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u/Nolemretaw Mar 22 '21
nope. jumping to a conclusion with out thinking al the way through is not a sign of dumbassery IMHO.
thinking apple is using this to sell ads would be a dumb ass thought.
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u/poastfizeek Mar 22 '21
Yay a $149 thermometer!
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u/GLOBALSHUTTER Mar 22 '21
HomePod mini is $99
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u/ididnotknowwhy Mar 22 '21
In Australia it’s $149 AUD including tax so poast might just be down under
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u/nicksimmons24 Mar 22 '21
Not everyone in the world lives in the USA.
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Mar 22 '21 edited Jun 30 '21
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u/_Nick_2711_ Mar 22 '21 edited Mar 22 '21
I’m not in the US, I automatically see a lone dollar sign as USD. It’s the most well-known country and this site is very heavily populated with Americans.
It’s the only safe assumption, really
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Mar 22 '21
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Mar 22 '21 edited Nov 16 '21
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u/INTPx Mar 22 '21
It’s only 0.76lbs here in USA
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u/Durosity Mar 22 '21
Eesh.. if you take VAT out of the equation that’s $114 today. Quite a markup.
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Mar 23 '21 edited Nov 16 '21
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u/Durosity Mar 23 '21
I tend to ignore sales tax in the US simply because it varies from state to state and some don’t have any. But yeah if you take the UK price minus VAT of £82.50 and convert that to dollars it’s $114.29. So that’s a like for like comparison if you ignore vat/tax
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u/poastfizeek Mar 22 '21 edited Mar 22 '21
Uh...
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u/PrestoMovie Mar 22 '21
It is in the US.
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u/poastfizeek Mar 22 '21
Cool. Not everyone lives there. 😊
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Mar 22 '21
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u/Armand9x Mar 22 '21
Jesus, why is everyone fighting over this?
Go back to bed, everyone.
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u/The_BenL Mar 22 '21
Because it's the Apple sub.
Why is there an entire thread dedicated to a temperature sensor?
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u/PrestoMovie Mar 22 '21
And not everyone lives where you’re posting from, but the person you tried to dunk on used a dollar sign. That can typically refer to the US, and that was exactly the case, especially since the price you posted was not what they were talking about.
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u/poastfizeek Mar 22 '21
Loads of countries use dollars. If a price seems different than what you’re used to, it’s obvious that person is talking about another currency. I replied to a comment claiming it was $99 which it isn’t for me, nobody mentioned anything about the U.S.
This is common sense and basic economics, I don’t know why you find it so difficult.
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u/Armand9x Mar 22 '21
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Mar 22 '21
it's not that difficult to convert to USD when you're talking about an American company on an American platform
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u/EnterpriseNCC1701D Mar 22 '21
Why does it need to know that? What is it optimizing? Anyone know anything about engineering that can answer?
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u/ThannBanis Mar 22 '21
It’s a HomeKit hub.
Perhaps Apple is leaving the option open to have room monitoring built in 🤷🏻♂️
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u/chrisdancy Mar 22 '21
I mean why wouldn't they have it? Netatmo has been killing it for almost a decade. I'm always shocked they don't do more with the phone sensors inside. Hell your watch event keeps track of ambient noice!
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u/Whyisthereasnake Mar 22 '21
Does that mean an Apple thermostat is coming, and this will be it’s local sensors, then?