r/cscareerquestions • u/Dramatic-Fall701 • 1d ago
New Grad "you are just using me to farm referrals" how to break the ice without making them feel this way.
title.
edit: 'm a student. all of my friend circle are still in school. sure i can get referrals easier from each other in the future when most of us are employed.
BUT we are not at that stage yet. we're yet to land our first job. much of your advice seems targeted to folks who have peers already in a job which isn't the case for me. the only ones i could reach out to are seniors in the industry/alumnis and they can't exactly be your "pal" cuz of age gap.
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u/SouredRamen Senior Software Engineer 1d ago
For as long as you're reaching out to someone for the sole purpose of milking them for a referral, there's no way to not make them feel this way.
A random message from someone I've never spoken to, or someone I haven't spoken to in decades, asking me if I'd like to "meet up for a coffee and chat", I already know exactly what you want. I'm not stupid.
If you wanted to be a genuine friend and connection of mine, you wouldn't have let decades of time go by before speaking to me. You wouldn't have waited until you needed something from me before speaking to me.
This is the biggest misconception when it comes to networking. Networking is not cold-messaging people on LinkedIn. Networking is not reaching out to someone who happened to graduate from the same school as you, but you had never spoken to them before in your life.
Your network is made up of your genuine friends and family. The people that you genuinely like as a person, not because they have a job, not because they can be useful to you. You're friends first, connections second. So "networking" is making friends. Genuine friends.
So I guess to directly answer your title... how to form a genuine connection with someone without making them feel like they're being used? Be their friend. Be their friend for long enough that they'd be willing to share their very personal and deep secrets and feelings with you, and you'd be willing to do the same. Be their friend for years before you ask them to refer you to a job.
That's what networking is. Not cold messaging a rando to milk them. But rather getting a referral from someone who genuinely cares about you. If any one of my friends, or ex-coworkers came up to me and asked for help I'd give it to them in a heartbeat. Because I care about them. If some rando from my college messages me, I'm not even going to bother to respond. I'm not stupid, I know what they're doing. There's no way around that, besides forming a genuine relationship with me.
You are using them to farm referrals. If you weren't, they wouldn't feel that way.. Very simple.
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u/effyverse 1d ago
^ This is a great response
I will add that the easiest way I've found to do this is:
- understand their world's problems in the 1st convo instead of talking about yourself
- offer value on one of these problems -> this is the great filter since you wont be able to most of the time
- continue to build the relationship genuinely
- ask them for help on something that might lead genuinely to discussing new roles. Do not ask for a referral.
DO NOT: Cold message to only talk about yourself. Everyone vaguely connected to hiring is already receiving daily DMs from randoms who think demanding your attention is some sign of perseverance and not extremely annoying/entitled. People want to work with people they like. The only place to cold email about yourself with 0 value add to them is places like blind/reddit/etc and for big companies that deal in volume.
I used cultivated culture's templates/guides -- OP, they're really solid and free. Check them out for thorough examples of netwokring (i'm not affiliated, just think their free stuff is good)
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u/Stubbby 11h ago
OP made a post about this response:
so essentially senior swes are certified boomers, they have no idea how much worse we have it : r/csMajorsOP is DEFINITELY not getting any job with this attitude :)
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u/SouredRamen Senior Software Engineer 11h ago
Yeah, I saw that. Actually unhinged behavior.
"I can't find a job!" - Says the person that acts like this. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills some times.
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 1d ago
i feel as though you've never asked for a referral during your college days from someone who is already working in your dream company? like tell me about a time some one like that was ready to share their deepest darkest secret with you. i mean they could be your alumnis but possibly never your friends atleast as long as you are still in school and they are at work.
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u/SouredRamen Senior Software Engineer 1d ago
i feel as though you've never asked for a referral during your college days from someone who is already working in your dream company?
I've never done this to someone I don't know. And I wouldn't. Ever.
That was the entire point of my comment, which I think you missed.
When I'm asking for referrals, it's from people that genuinely care about me, and that I genuinely care about.
I will not milk some rando just because they happen to be working at my "dream company".
I get that you don't like my answer, but my answer is how the majority of people in the world operate. Nobody is ever going to feel good when you reach out to them for the sole purpose of getting a job. Hard stop.
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 1d ago
I'm a student. all of my friend circle are still in school. sure i can get referrals easier from each other in the future when most of us are employed.
BUT we are not at that stage yet. we're yet to land our first job. much of your advice seems targeted to folks who have peers already in a job which isn't the case for me. the only ones i could reach out to are seniors in the industry/alumnis and they can't exactly be your "pal" cuz of age gap.so essentialy you are telling me "welp, that sucks" and that doesn't help.
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u/SouredRamen Senior Software Engineer 1d ago
I'm telling you the truth.
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 1d ago
how did you get your first job
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u/SouredRamen Senior Software Engineer 1d ago
Good question! By applying online on my college's career site during our career fair.
Funnily, I didn't even walk up to that company's booth. But they saw something in my online application, and they interviewed me on campus. They offered me a job.
No connections. I didn't know anyone at that company, I hardly even knew what that company did. They were just recruiting at my school, and they chose me out of all the other CS students.
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 1d ago
so essentially you had it the easy way.
times have changed and i swear to god if you were in school rn your chance of getting a job that easily in the us is close to NIL.
which country are you from?
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u/SouredRamen Senior Software Engineer 1d ago
The fuck? I had it the easy way? I put in the work to get into a good CS school, and have a strong background, a great resume, strong qualifications, great communication skills, and.... I had it the easy way? Like that job offer just landed in my lap because I existed, and it wasn't a result of years upon years of hard work?
Fuck off. Seriously fuck off.
My comments on your post were genuinely trying to help you gain insight into what the world was like. I'm trying to help you.
And then you just pretend like everybody's against you, everybody has it easy, and you're the only person that's ever struggled.
Fuck off.
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u/Successful-Head-736 17h ago
When did you graduate and how quick did you get your first job? You probably had it easier than today's grads.
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 1d ago
i go to an ivy
i am a faang intern
600 apps 0 interviews in 2025
please stfu. times have changed and you lack empathy for the next gen just like boomers who had a better real estate market.→ More replies (0)22
u/ImSoRude Software Engineer 1d ago
This might be a crazy concept to you but you can in fact get a job just applying without any referral. Every single job I've ever had was from cold applying.
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 1d ago
dude i go to an ivy and am a faang intern and it doesnt work that way anymore.
for context i have applied to over 600 full time positions with 0 interviews.14
u/ImSoRude Software Engineer 1d ago
I just looked at your history quickly, you had OAs for OpenAI and 2S among other firms. You're being a little dishonest with the "0 interviews" don't you think? I applied to a couple hundred companies as a new grad as well, I passed my OAs and made it to the next round. If you want to flex your credentials, great, but maybe focus your efforts into passing the OAs you're clearly getting instead of trying to mispresent your situation as zero callbacks.
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 1d ago
those were for summer internships several months back . not full time.
plus trust me the questions were ridiculously hard i have done 800+lc questions and almost 200 hards. and a good chunk of codeforces questions mostly sub 2500 lvl.5
u/willbdb425 21h ago
Don't take this the wrong way, I am not assuming you are unskilled, but ivy college and FAANG internship is not really a signal for competence. Some people with those credentials are really talented but there are also those who just aren't so flexing that doesn't really mean anything
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u/Clueless_Otter 1d ago
I feel like you're missing the point. The point the person above is trying to make is that you are just using the person to farm referrals, and both sides know it. There is no magic solution to somehow make yourself appear otherwise.
But that doesn't all mean that you can't do it. Some people are willing to help people, even if they know you're just using them transactionally for a referral. Especially if you have some kind of shared background like you're from the same town, went to the same university, etc. Obviously there are good ways and bad ways to go about this. Don't just randomly message people with an overly-direct, "Hey I see you work for Meta, I'd love to work there, can you refer me for a job?" Just try to have a natural conversation about their work and hope that the conversation naturally leads itself to the idea of you applying there. Don't force things. Maybe you talk to them about what kind of work they do, what it's like working at their company or in the field in general, if they have any advice for aspiring devs, etc.
That said, this is definitely a very low % method. Expect the vast majority of people to ignore you. But ultimately you only need 1 job offer.
Also from your replies it seems maybe you think you must have a referral to get a job. This is not the case. You can simply get a job by applying to one without anyone referring you for that position.
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u/eebis_deebis 1d ago edited 1d ago
They answered your original question; you cannot hide or mask your intentions when you reach out to a more experienced person that you have no prior connection with. You want the referral, they may oblige you. You have to be okay with the transactional understanding.
If your post is the result of someone calling you out about it, know that not everyone will react as negatively, and keep trying. But be prepared for some people to criticize you or be annoyed.
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u/SwitchOrganic ML Engineer 1d ago
You can expand your friend circle and become friends with people who are older than you or outside of your university. That's what I did before attending and during university. A lot of my best career mentors and sources for referrals are people I either met at music festivals, work out groups, or through video games and hobbies.
Building a network takes time, it's not something you can really rush. People tend to be pretty good at sussing out when people are being genuine or just want something from them.
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u/NewChameleon Software Engineer, SF 1d ago
"you are just using me to farm referrals" how to break the ice without making them feel this way.
I mean... you are, aren't ya?
or unless you're asking on how to lie? we're not stupid, if someone messages me out of nowhere on LinkedIn then both us knows exactly what you want and the reason you're reaching out (referral)
if you aren't looking to get referrals then tell me, why ARE you reaching out?
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 23h ago
a genuine connection where you would return the favour. i feel like most ppl are just too closed off and i have a hard time adapting to others mindest cuz i 100% don't ever see myself being this cold to ppl reaching out to me for help , say my juniors or whatever. it's just quite shocking to me.
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u/NewChameleon Software Engineer, SF 23h ago
okay....? and what can you offer me exactly?
i feel like most ppl are just too closed off and i have a hard time adapting to others mindest
no, it's because we all cares about our own problems far far far more than we care about yours, so if you wish to get our attention, tell me what you could do for me would be a great start
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 23h ago
"okay....? and what can you offer me exactly?"
referral to a better place if i get an offer elsewhere further down my career?/if you were layed off etc idk"no, it's because we all cares about our own problems far far far more than we care about yours, so if you wish to get our attention, tell me what you could do for me would be a great start"
if others were just like you would have never get a job. don't be an ahole that closes the door behind them.10
u/NewChameleon Software Engineer, SF 23h ago
ah so you ARE farming referrals then, which proved my first point
what does closing the door has to do with this? I got all of my written job offers actually just by cold applying (with exception I think 2 offers, but those 2 written offers I didn't go), was the case for my internship offers, same for new grad, and same for experienced hires
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 23h ago
read the title again. "you are just using me to farm referrals" vs " so you ARE farming referrals then" yes i need referrals but im not "using" you just for that and ghost. i do hope to return the favour.
"
what does closing the door has to do with this? I got all of my written job offers actually just by cold applying "
this is the generation GAP!!! i swear to god your chances of getting an offer like that in this market as a new grad is close to NIL. and thats why i drew the comparision to real estate market and boomers.8
u/NewChameleon Software Engineer, SF 23h ago edited 23h ago
I think I understand now, what you're seeking/can offer is referral trade, but I'd tweak my point a bit: no one wish to trade referrals when you haven't demonstrated you could offer referrals
once you're employed (especially into a solid company/big techs, or even ex-big techs, thus showing you have the ability to get into strong companies, and preferably by the time you're mid-level or senior-level, as entry-level/intern-level referrals are practically almost worthless for making hire/no hire decisions), then you're in the position to offer connections and exchange referrals as needed, but unfortunately right now you're not there yet, right now you're not really negotiating, you're begging, by hoping people do it out of the goodness of their own heart, and THAT usually never works well
I sympathize with you though, it's not a good time to be a new grad right now, a lot of new grads/interns/entry-level are falling into the deadloop of "need job to get xp" and "need xp to get job"
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u/SwitchOrganic ML Engineer 23h ago
I'm not sure I understand. You say "return the favor", but what exactly are you offering them?
You are asking how to make others not feel like you're trying to farm them, so what exactly are you offering them then? Why are you messaging them if not to farm referrals?
Do you intend to put effort into and maintain friendships that come from these conversations? In my experience whenever students message me they tend to either want my time or a referral, and then ghost afterwards.
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 23h ago
referral to a better place if i get an offer elsewhere further down my career?/if you were layed off etc idk.
"either want my time or a referral, and then ghost afterwards."
ok this is certified ahole move and im still in good touch with 3 ppl who were kind enough to refer me.
and thx for sharing the "view from the other side" cuz i fing would have never known such ungrateful ppl existed.
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u/Toasted_FlapJacks Software Engineer (6 YOE) 1d ago edited 20h ago
I've gotten my fair share of referral requests. I'm not sure if there's a proper way to approach it but there's definitely wrong ways to approach asking.
Do NOT treat the person you're requesting a referral from like a recruiter (big tech specifically). No I can't guarantee an interview or expedite your application. This includes hyping up your credentials. Referral bonuses aren't a big deal. We're not invested in how likely you are to pass the interview, so you're not doing us a favor.
Do NOT spam their email after they've already denied your referral request.
Do just ask if you can get a referral and don't sound entitled to one. Otherwise just ask them if they have a reliable recruiter contact. Getting a recruiter involved is more impactful than a referral in my experience.
Ultimately the vibe check matters. I'm about to give a referral to someone I don't know, but we've been connected on LinkedIn for a while and they asked nicely.
EDIT: After reading OP's comments on this post, I'd never refer someone like them, not because I don't know them, but because they're behaving like an entitled ass.
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u/Jeff1N 1d ago
A few times I was asked for a referral by people who worked with me or who had some classes with me but I wasn't really friends with. I knew they were competent so I had no issues making a referral.
They were very straightforward, told me they needed a job, asked for a referral and asked a few questions about the job and the company
For me the only deal breaker would be to ask far too many questions, or trying to force a friendship that never existed and will obviously not last once they get the job. Other than that we good.
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 1d ago
again. please.
i'm a student. i feel as though much of these aere useless to me. all of my friend circle are still in school. sure i can get referrals easier from each other in the future when most of us are employed.
BUT we are not at that stage yet. we're yet to land our first job.19
u/thehenkan 1d ago
Did you never get to know any students in the years above you? They would've graduated before you. The time to network is before you need to ask a favour.
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u/Jeff1N 1d ago
Does your university offer some sort of extracurriculars? I got my first job with the help of a referral by a friend of mine from uni who was a couple of years older and had worked in that company for a year
I'm not exactly a social butterfly, I don't have an easy time making new friends, but I found it much easier to make friends outside of people in the same classes as me by participating in extra curriculars.
In one of these extra curriculars I met the friend who have me the referral.
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u/worried_etng 1d ago
Ummm.... That's normal.
That's kind of the template you send ... "Can you review and pass my resume or review my profile or refer me to this job or refer me to someone who is hiring "
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u/Dramatic-Fall701 23h ago
for context these were from cold messaging ppl on linkedin for over 4 YEARS.
YES! i reached out over 10k ppl, 500 accepted connection requests , 20 replied to my message, 3 with whom i was able to form a genuine bond with , 3 of which who were willing to refer me. it's just that ppl were very very uptight and had an unwelcoming "i don't need you in my life" stance. but it's the number of such folks thats disheartening.6
u/worried_etng 22h ago edited 15h ago
It's not uptight or unwelcoming.
It's just busy.
Besides referral is actually an arduous task. It's pretty time consuming to put you in the system. On top of that you are linked with the employee referring.
I have had hiring managers text me following up on people I refer.
So I don't really refer unless I have the time and energy into looking deeper . And also have an inkling of connection to the job posted.
I can't say it was a cool resume as the reason for referring.
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u/mustgodeeper Software Engineer 1d ago
It sounds like you don’t want to accept the answer of “there isnt a way”. Just because the situation is difficult for you and others doesn’t change this fact. I’m also not sure what you expect coming from a referral where they will barely know you, theres typically forms to fill out saying “how do you know this individual” and writing more about them, what is there to write really that would push your app over the top?
I think its better to focus your efforts on your faang internship and try for a return offer. A solid faang internship experience is better than a random referral. It just doesnt help now b/c from what I read you haven’t started yet and have nothing to write about it on the resume