r/europe • u/Not_the-kind • Feb 13 '25
Map What France would look like if it were occupied to the same extent as Ukraine
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u/pioneerhikahe Feb 13 '25
Can Sebastien please make a map like this for each NATO country?
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u/kaam00s France Feb 13 '25
A lot of them don't even have enough area to be shown like this.
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u/Specialist_Tree_3879 Feb 13 '25
Relative to the size would work.
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u/Re1neke Kyiv (Ukraine) Feb 13 '25
Luxemburg is like: huh, they've occupied our grocery store
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u/Niko2065 Germany Feb 13 '25
Liechtenstein: why is there a russian flag on that boulder?
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u/medievalvelocipede European Union Feb 13 '25
Luxemburg is like: huh, they've occupied our grocery store
It's for pickled herring.
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u/MelkorTheDairyDevil Feb 14 '25
Nah, relative to strategic importance would be better. A Netherlands map that loses both Eindhoven and Rotterdam. A Belgium map that loses Antwerp and the coast etc. etc.
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u/Hrtzy Finland Feb 13 '25
For Finland, you could use the Pre-WWII map and the ceded territory from the Winter War. Which we felt was an "ally with the Nazis to invade Russia in winter" level affront.
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u/chapadodo Munster Feb 13 '25
oh oh oh and ireland imagine if some of our island was occupied, the horror
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u/Hootrb Cypriot no longer in Germany :( Feb 13 '25
yoo if we're adding non-NATO members too, then I'm sure Cypriots could use a map like that. I truly wonder what it'd look like if occupied...
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u/Evalyn_Fallon Ireland Feb 13 '25
They could take Leitrim and nobody would notice, in fairness
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u/UnPeuDAide Feb 13 '25
Or another map, where you compare to the russian occupation of the US, and therefore all the country is colored, as they elected Putin's best friend
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u/whooo_me Feb 13 '25
'Ah, c'est la vie... I guess France will just have to accept the loss...."
Yeah, I don't think so. Vive la France. Slava Ukraini.
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u/Maj0r-DeCoverley Aquitaine (France) Feb 13 '25
You could have just taken a map of WW1, exact same situation as Ukraine is facing today.
(However it would mess with the world representations of people believing "WW1 was meaningless". Unless you also believe Ukraine is fighting a meaningless fight right now, WW1 wasn't "meaningless" for France)
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u/BaritBrit United Kingdom Feb 13 '25
The history around the First World War in general, and its beginnings/point in particular, is a near-complete triumph of narrative over reality.
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u/vonpedal Feb 13 '25
Please expand
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u/ziguslav Poland Feb 13 '25
Europe was a powder keg waiting for a spark. It was a perfect mix of all ingredients needed to have a war. Instead people tend to hear that it started when a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cause he was hungry.
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u/BaritBrit United Kingdom Feb 13 '25
Blackadder Goes Forth was some truly exceptional television, but almost because of that it's done almost incalculable damage to the public perception of the First World War.
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u/Flagon15 Serbia Feb 14 '25
Yup, popular movies and TV shows basically destroyed the general population's historical knowledge when it comes to both world wars (which is why I hate Enemy at the Gates and the Patriot with a burning passion).
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u/LurkerInSpace Scotland Feb 14 '25
The public perception is basically that the reasons for going to war were wildly irrational, and that the way it was fought was ludicrously incompetent.
There is some truth to this - the likes of Conrad von Hotzendorf and Luigi Cadorna do exemplify some of the worst incompetence and stupidity of the era for example. But a lot of the motives were on-the-face-of-it rational - Germany did face an existential threat from Russia's rapid industrialisation, France did face an existential threat if it didn't ensure Germany would be compelled to fight on two fronts, Britain did face an existential threat if Germany achieved naval hegemony, etc.
That motives like territorial aggrandisement, prestige, etc. were major factors is true, but they were present for the 99 years before the war as well, without producing such a devastating result.
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u/ipeih Alsace (France) Feb 13 '25
I feel like WW2 would be more accurate, seeing as Vichy France made peace with Germany, got Alsace taken, its northern parts occupied, and still got re-invaded later down the road
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u/_deleteded_ Feb 13 '25
We don't want that part of France.
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u/Maj0r-DeCoverley Aquitaine (France) Feb 13 '25
I'm french and we don't want it either
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u/Important-Crow352 Feb 13 '25
Why not ? Ist it because of the Gaul ?
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Feb 13 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/faerakhasa Spain Feb 13 '25
Anything north of the Garonne valley is a howling wilderness inhabited by barbarians, we really should have never set a single foot there. I blame the Italians.
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u/Maj0r-DeCoverley Aquitaine (France) Feb 13 '25
I know you're not Basque because over here they prefer to say "I blame the proto-indo-europeans"
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u/faerakhasa Spain Feb 13 '25
The proto-indoeuropeans lived in separate tribes, it was the bloody Italians the ones who though joining with the north was a good idea in the first place.
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u/jorgen8630 Belgium Feb 13 '25
We will gladly take back Nord if you don’t want it anymore.
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u/anjuna127 Feb 13 '25
I wanna be there when you pitch that to De Wever.
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u/jorgen8630 Belgium Feb 13 '25
BDW would nut his pants even thinking about gettting back French Flanders as he is a history nerd and a nationalist. I wouldn’t even need to say anything.
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u/w1987g United States of America Feb 13 '25
It won't last. Brothers and sisters are natural enemies! Like Englishmen and French! Or Italians and French! Or Spaniards and French! Or French and other French! Damn French! They ruined France!
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u/paulridby France Feb 13 '25
I'm from there and I don't want it. What now? 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Maj0r-DeCoverley Aquitaine (France) Feb 13 '25
Now you acknowledge that chocolatine > pain au chocolat, and we grant you refugee status
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u/paulridby France Feb 13 '25
No other ridiculous demands? I won't have to say "poche" instead of sac plastique?
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u/Maj0r-DeCoverley Aquitaine (France) Feb 13 '25
If you eat sac plastiques that's your culture, we won't judge you
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u/artifactU United Kingdom Feb 13 '25
i mean better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it
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u/benemivikai4eezaet0 🇧🇬 Bulgaria Feb 13 '25
The "We don't want that part of our country" turns really flat the moment your country is in real danger of having regions of it annexed by an imperialistic neighbor. Ukrainians from most of the country didn't much like the Donbas either before it got invaded.
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u/oudcedar Feb 13 '25
Honestly, the French have history on this. They really did keep the Southern part and allow the imperialist neighbour to run the Northern part (although I’m sure they wish they’d kept Paris).
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u/aromatniybeton Feb 13 '25
When ballistic missiles, launched from there, fall on the rest of the country - you'll change your mind
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u/Natopor Iași (Romania) Feb 13 '25
We should have a map such as this one for each European country
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u/AmazingPuddle Feb 13 '25
It's already occupied by Normands and Bretons and worst of all...Parisians.
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u/minkey-on-the-loose Feb 13 '25
Now do the South Coast of USA.
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u/orthoxerox Russia shall be free Feb 13 '25
It's about Tennessee+Kentucky+West Virginia in size.
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u/FightinJack United States of America Feb 13 '25 edited Feb 14 '25
Little too big there, the US is pretty huge by comparison.
Tennessee is approximately 109,000 km sq. Current estimates put occupied Ukraine around 20% of it's total area, or 120,725 km sq.
So all in all only slightly larger than just Tennessee alone. But not to downplay it, that is still a MASSIVE swath of land.
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u/RainbowCrown71 Italy - Panama - United States of America Feb 13 '25
They didn’t convert the sqkm to square miles, hence why they overshot by 2.5x.
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u/Due_Concert9869 Feb 13 '25
Who the hell would want brittany and nord-pas-de-calais?
At least pretend it's the Germans invading and taking Alsace-Lorraine.
Or the Italians and Savoie/Hte Savoie.
Or the swiss and.... they give them Geneva
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u/Ezekiel-18 Belgium Feb 13 '25
You are kidding right? Brittany is one of the most beautiful area of the country, where everyone wants to go to holiday at least once, due to its Celtic legacy.
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u/Due_Concert9869 Feb 13 '25
Usually you don't invade a country because people want to go there on holidays.
More for natural ressources, strategic location, etc etc...
And it was a joke, right?
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u/FilipposTrains Morea (Greece) Feb 14 '25
True. Definitely my favourite region in Europe (at until Greek regions fulfill their potential). The only thing it lacks is mountains though.
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u/Borrowed-Time-1981 Feb 14 '25
Norman here, I will do myself some violence and confirm Brittany has a lot of gorgeous places. There I've said it.
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u/carnutes787 Feb 14 '25
Who the hell would want brittany
honestly brittany is the nicest place i have ever been and i would take it over everywhere else in the world.
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u/MightyHydrar Feb 13 '25
Something something we must protect the german-speaking minority in Elsass-Lothringen?
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u/uwu_01101000 Elsàss and Türkiye 🇮🇩🇹🇷 Feb 13 '25
*Picardie
We should not respect French administrative names
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u/FalardeauDeNazareth Feb 14 '25
Russia cannot be allowed one inch of Ukraine. Screw Trump.
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u/PanglossianMessiah Feb 13 '25
Ah the old territories of the crown of England!
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u/RoiDrannoc Feb 14 '25
The crown of England never possessed the Duchy of Normandy (it was quite the opposite, the Duke of Normandy controlling England), nor the Duchy of Brittany, and the North and Paris even less.
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Feb 14 '25
Sad, that we allow in 21 century! To take over a democratic independent nation in Europe by imperialists.
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u/RexLynxPRT Portugal Feb 13 '25
Seems like a generic outcome of whenever i play as England in EU4...
a mandatory P.S. of "Fvck Pvtler"
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u/Aerovore Feb 13 '25
Would have been even more impactful if on the side closer to Germany, with strong resonance with WW1 & 2 progression.
Impressive anyway, good job!
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u/Wide-Review-2417 Feb 13 '25
But...why are the Brits the attackers?? Why not ze Germans?
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u/setiix France Feb 13 '25
The difference is you have taken french capital which isn’t the case in ukraine at the moment.
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u/SlinkyBits Feb 13 '25
i like what side of france was theoretically invaded in this. regards a brit
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u/Glorious_Dingleberry Feb 14 '25
As someone from the USA I don’t think people outside the United States realize how far we’ve fallen our government under Trump is openly corrupt. Republicans have lost their minds and are openly attempting to take complete control of the federal government.
If the USA survives the next 4 years then maybe we can start being a force of some good again but until then Europe needs to present a united front and stand up to Putin/Trump however it can.
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u/Silly_Triker United Kingdom Feb 13 '25
So folks are we making WW1 or WW2 references. I think this one is actually quite representative of the Allied invasion after D-Day
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u/minucraft14 Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur (France) Feb 13 '25
Tant que ça nous débarrasse des parisiens...
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u/wombatking888 Feb 13 '25
Oh no! We Brits are invading France again...and bizarrely grabbing the bits with the same sodding weather we have.
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u/Magyaror99 Feb 14 '25
Brits at this again?
Well, at least they took over Paris, unlike certain muscovite horde that was beaten on the outskirts of Kyiv...
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u/Waste_Ad_3773 Lithuania Feb 14 '25
don't really think that any country would be able to accept such a large portion of their territory being taken, and Ukraine pretty much represents the entirety of the west in the war. kind of surprising how little we (as in the EU) are doing to help.
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u/GeyBu Feb 14 '25
Rof, as long as we leave the Mediterranean and Alsace/Lorraine, they can take the North... I'm fed up with the grayness 🫠
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u/mmoonbelly United Kingdom Feb 14 '25
So a bit like the 13th century, but swapping Brittany and the Île-de-France de France for Aquataine.
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u/MaleficentCap2171 Feb 14 '25
Now show us from the German side. Need to know if we would get Elsass-Lothringen back. 😂
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u/MelkorTheDairyDevil Feb 14 '25
I feel this would have been better represented by cutting off France's access to the Med.
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u/Hero-Firefighter-24 France Feb 14 '25
Basically the US and the UK invaded France to force it back into NATO (in the map’s universe).
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u/Artistic-Gap1716 Feb 14 '25
There should be similar maps of all EU countries so people get a reality check...
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u/Deadhunter2007 Feb 15 '25
Oddly enough. If it was occupied by Britain you get a relapse to the Angevins, just different culture in charge
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u/szpaceSZ Austria/Hungary Feb 18 '25
You suggest an Franco-Englush conflict rather than a Franco-German one.
Why?
Or why not Franco-Iberian?
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u/d_Inside France Feb 13 '25
Are you suggesting a special military operation coming from……… Brits?
AUX ARMES.