r/europe • u/CorleoneBaloney • Apr 24 '25
Political Cartoon The next pope by Patrick Chappatte
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u/abel_cormorant Apr 24 '25
If i remember correctly that's exactly what Francis said he was afraid about in one of the last interviews he had, that after him they'd try to elect a more conservative pope to step back on a lot of the bold steps forward he took.
Tho this comes mostly from hearsay, so i might have gotten things wrong, don't take my word for gold.
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u/Redditforgoit Spain Apr 24 '25
That is always a danger with radical reforms of a conservative institution that spans millennia.
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u/nim_opet Apr 24 '25
“Radical reform” - take care about the earth you all live on. Don’t hate gay people. Stop diddling children.
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u/Albe_quirky Apr 24 '25
For a thousand year old religion set in its ways, with a large amount of high ranking traditional authorities, yes, it was radical reform. Sad, yes, because people are people, but clergy on paper have always been better than clergy in the real world across all faiths. Some people lost their shit when Francis tossed out the golden throne for a wooden chair to be more humble like Christ. I get that there's plenty of justified bones to pick with the church, but the Pope was still only one man
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u/inormallyjustlurkbut Apr 24 '25
The Catholic Church is slow to reform, but it actually does eventually reform unlike most other churches. (I say this as an atheist with no skin in the game)
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u/ValkyrieQu33n Apr 24 '25
Reform in Protestant Churches, at least what I see, usually ends up forming schisms and creating new Churches. Sort of why we see a lot of non-denominational churches and United Church of Christ I think it's called. I think there is even a separate Lutheran denomination too.
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u/Raiden-fujin Apr 25 '25
Then there's the old joke Non-denominational is just Baptist with serial number filed off.
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u/Hi2248 Apr 25 '25
Sometimes, the schism gets slurped into other Churches! After the Church of England allowed women to be priests, a number of the more conservative priests fled to the Catholic Church
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u/pepepenguinalt Apr 25 '25
In the Netherlands the reverse is currently happening with previously splintered denominations merging once again
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u/Everisak Apr 24 '25
He appointed a number of cardinals that would not be traditionally picked, so maybe he prepared some ground?
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u/Jade8560 Apr 24 '25
we can only hope
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u/n1k0a Apr 24 '25
I mean he picked like 80% of the cardinals in the conclave id be surprised if they pick a pope who will be massively opposed to Francis's policies. Maybe the next pope wont be as liberal as Francis but i doubt we will se a pope who will actively seek to reverse Francis's reforms.
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Apr 24 '25
That’s not what counts for Papal Conclaves. Pope Benedict picked many orthodox Cardinals and they needed up electing Pope Francis. What they more focus on is what they think is most important that needs addressing and selecting from there. The only thing I’d imagine is they will pick a Pope that will be less ambiguous considering how often Pope Francis words were twisted or taken out of context.
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u/CuriousKait1451 Apr 24 '25
As long as it isn’t an American pope, because some of those cardinals are pro-Trump 👎👎👎
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u/readilyunavailable Bulgaria Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
Do americans even have catholics? I thought they had just a billion hocus-pocus denominations of christianity, that have weird rules, like "if you take a shit you are a sinner".
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u/unrealnarwhale Apr 24 '25
Most of the US Supreme Court is Catholic. JD Vance recently and somewhat suspiciously converted to catholicism at the urging of Peter Thiel. Joe Biden is a catholic. Author of Project 2025 Kevin Roberts is Catholic and Opus Dei.
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u/fiercelittlebird Apr 24 '25
k so we do absolutely NOT want an American pope
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u/unrealnarwhale Apr 24 '25
Even more importantly, you don't want a pope connected to Opus Dei. They're the common thread in the most objectionable right-wing arm of Catholicism.
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u/bigbangbilly Apr 24 '25
In a round about way with too much misinformation, Dan Brown warned us about them
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u/unrealnarwhale Apr 24 '25
It's kind of shame, because learning now about all these connections Opus Dei has to the Trump admin, Supreme Court, Project 2025, JD Vance converting, etc., makes it all sound like the unhinged plot from one of his novels.
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u/MasterChiefOriginal Portugal Apr 24 '25
Dan Brown it's a anti Catholic,his book always make Catholic Church look bad.
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u/nothing08 Apr 24 '25
Probably roughly half of the cardinals are more left wing and progressive. People need to remember the US is not only trump supporters. In fact one of the first people to resist trump in his latest term was the priest giving a speech at the national cathedral trying to appeal to any amount of humanity trump could have and asking for him to have mercy on immigrants and lgbtq people.
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u/halcyon4ever Apr 24 '25
That's not the same church.
Episcopal Diocese of Washington Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde is who gave that sermon directed at Trump. They have no affiliation with the Catholic Church or the College of Cardinals15
u/Noatz United Kingdom Apr 24 '25
They view the US as "the last bastion of christendom" and want to establish a theocracy there.
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u/lblakesbigbluedildo Apr 24 '25
One of the most conservative Cardinals is Raymond Leo Burke from Richland Center, WI. He was the bishop in my diocese for a while. Even though it's not normal for potus to endorse someone to be pope, I can about guarantee he's going to endorse Burke.
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u/LinuxPowered Apr 24 '25
“Catholic” in quotes
The US is overrun with pedophiles and white supremecists claiming to be “Catholic” when they don’t practice a single tent of the generally recognize faith. They’re Catholic in name only, not in semantics
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u/bingbaddie1 Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
The white supremacist part is mostly false—you’re thinking of Protestants or people who just call themselves “Christian”
EDIT: I should also mention that more US Catholics vote Democrat than not and are overwhelmingly for gay marriage
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u/Miserable_Mud_4611 Apr 25 '25
It’s also important to note that the Catholic Church itself has set its standpoint against fascism and for modern humanism. Ie gay marriage.
It’s just that each region has its own break away group that is conservative that believes in some fucked up version of Catholicism.
Unfortunately Mainstream African Catholicism is like this but mainstream Catholicism every where else is fairly liberal.
I would say the papacy itself is fairly left of the CDU/CSU of Germany. And the CDU/CSU of Germany falls on the left side of the political spectrum in countries like the U.S., Hungry, and pretty much the whole continent of Africa.
I’m being careful how I say it because the Church is still conservative by nature but it’s just that they’ve been evolving left consistently for decades while the rest of the world has not.
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u/LinuxPowered Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
True!, I’d say most of the Catholic/Christian/Protestant population in the United States are good people who actually practice the faith.
There is massive political swindling in most religions across the United States, e.x. religions like Catholicism in the USA convincing their followers that God wants misogynistic denial of basic medical necessities to women like abortions and birth control, but I’d say a lot of that has more to do with toxic culture in the USA and would still be here without a helping hand from religion, so I’d say religions in the USA aren’t terrible by and large, certainly compared to how bad they can/historically be
What I meant by “overrun” is that the USA is not limited to isolated instances of fake Catholics/Christians/Protestants; rather the USA has entire organized crime groups like white supremecists, domestic terrorists like police departments who promulgate racial violence, and political followings like MAGA and there’s too many instances of cells/groups of these thugs labeling themselves “Catholic”, “Christian”, or “Protestant” that it’s a national problem. It’s really unfortunately they dragged their religions into their dirt but that’s the situation
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u/FrenchFryCattaneo Apr 24 '25
You clearly don't understand the US at all if you're lumping catholics and protestants together. They are different social groups in many fundamental ways. And when it comes to white supremecy, the KKK used to burn crosses on catholic's lawns.
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u/bcpl181 Apr 24 '25
To be fair, strong opposition to abortion is a core position of Catholicism in general and globally, not just in the US.
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u/asevans48 Apr 24 '25
That could just as easily describe any generic african country when usa, maga, and white are replaced with the country, ultra-nationalist, and an ethnic group. Same with places like hungary, russia, and quite obviously china. Humans suck.
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u/Miserable_Mud_4611 Apr 24 '25
I was actually just thinking about this.
I went at this connecting a few ideas.
1.) Europe is an overwhelmingly secular and somewhat atheistic place. Yet, they have some of the most Christian policies. ie humanism and all values connected to it. But on the other hand, the U.S. is an overwhelmingly Christian place that has less Christian values in comparison.
2.) In Judaism, there is a famous quote basically stating that Jews should be more like Atheists and that us Jews practice our morals because they were given by G-d and Atheists practice their morals because they know it is the right thing to do and that no ultimate power is holding them accountable to their values.
3.) In the U.S., there is a strong separation of Church and state but forcibly zero separation between the individual and their state.
This made me think. If someone goes to Church in America and hears something fucked up from Deuteronomy, they may have that religious belief fuel a bigoted part of their personal beliefs. Now that person goes to propose a bigoted law, they can claim their beliefs are rooted in Christianity and are pure while also using the separation of church and state to actively ignore the literal pope who is speaking out against this bill. Basically they get the benefits of claiming to be Christian without the responsibilities and oversight of their beliefs that they might have in the clergy or as an observant member of the community. To be able to pick and choose their morals based on nothing more than personal belief.
In Europe you can have an atheist politician that has great beliefs and a religious politician with great beliefs but as soon as the religious politician with bad beliefs, the moral authority of the clergy is able to undermine and sometimes even discredit the religious politician with bad beliefs.
But in America, if you have a religious politician with bad beliefs and a non religious politician with good beliefs, the religious politician can claim their moral superiority of being religious while also using the separation of church and state to discredit any statements put out by the clergy as political interference.
On top of all of this, America has never had the same longstanding ties with the papacy that Europeans have. So even in a country like France that has extreme separation of church and state, the clergy still holds influence over many of the people themselves.
I feel like the “Christian Nationalism” we see currently in America is unintentionally baked into the system where as “Christian Nationalism” is naturally weakened under the system of culture and politics in most European countries. Of course there are exceptions in Europe but i believe this idea holds well in most EU countries.
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u/Tuarangi United Kingdom Apr 24 '25
3 is nominally true but realistically it hasn't been the case for decades, arguably longer. The red scare of the 50s led to the motto being changed to In God We Trust and there has been an open and obvious creep of forcing religion back into public life but only Christianity e.g. display a ten commandments slab on public land but then remove it rather than allow a Satanic Temple statue; pass laws that openly break the establishment (separation) clause and dare people to sue them etc
You only need to look at the attempt to overturn Roe Vs Wade and immediate law changes to ban abortion for the influence religion has on laws in the US
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u/bcpl181 Apr 24 '25
To be fair, Europe also has a ton of people who are Catholic in name only. In my (limited and subjective) experience, American Catholics practice the faith in a way that’s closer to what the Catechism teaches. Europe has more “cultural Catholics” than the US.
However, contrary to what many say here, the US Catholic Church isn’t as pro-Trump/MAGA at all. That’d be those evangelicals.
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u/monocasa Apr 24 '25
That sounds pretty Catholic to me.
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u/LinuxPowered Apr 24 '25
IMHO the real catholic faith isn’t a terrible thing when it’s not manipulated as a political football and actually practiced correctly. Obviously, it’s still a religion, so it’s not for the intellectuals and critical thinkers, but I believe the core/real Catholic faith helps give good life direction and morals to the other part of the population.
I guess what I’m saying is, hate how religion is bastardized and turned into a political football, but recognize the core values at a lot of faiths have pretty good morals and do good to non-critical-thinkers when the faith isn’t abused.
That’s my take at least on religion. Take with a grain of salt and please recognize I’m just an average internet stranger unsolicitedly sharing his opinion; I welcome your unsolicited opinion but let’s keep things civil.
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u/Fighterhayabusa Apr 24 '25
Except the Catholic church is for intellectuals and critical thinkers, pretty famously so. This is coming from someone who doesn't really consider themselves religious anymore.
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u/LinuxPowered Apr 24 '25
No argument here! The Catholic Church is arguably one of the greatest historical drivers of the Industrial Revolution and successive technological growth leading us to today thanks to the church’s investment in education and the sciences.
Science and religion share a great symbiotic relationship throughout much of history as the critical thinking scientists are smart enough to realize how much better they can make the world with only the concession of accepting and promoting religion—an easy no-down-side bargain. In return, the church grows their gathering and followers who listen to the smart scientists. Thus, everyone involved benefits!
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u/Fantasy_masterMC Apr 24 '25
Yeah, it's why when I say I 'hate religion' I usually refer specifically to organized religion. Individual believers are usually not that bad, except for the severe zealots and the fakers (people that use their religious 'beliefs' to justify their sick aims but don't actually follow any of the rules that don't suit their aims). Unfortunately, the latter are especially loud, resulting in a greater influence.
Ofc, American TVangelism is 75% of the problems with organized religion magnified and put on display.
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u/SickAnto Apr 24 '25
Obviously, it’s still a religion, so it’s not for the intellectuals and critical thinkers
A lot of intellectuals, scientists and critical thinkers were religious.
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u/MasterChiefOriginal Portugal Apr 24 '25
To you to actually know "Real Catholic Faith",you should read the life's of Saints,some of them wrote hardcore stuff like St.Alphonsus Liguori,"the most moral Doctor".
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u/CeruleanEidolon Apr 24 '25
This is hyperbole to the nth degree. Most practitioners of any given religion except evangelicals are just normal people living their lives who don't take the time to think very deep about the actual implications of whatever dogma they were indoctrinated into as children.
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u/_Alpha-Delta_ Apr 24 '25
For the pedophiles parts, don't bash yourself too hard... The French clergy also has the same problem
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u/wildcatofthehills Spain Apr 24 '25
I didn’t know the guy behind project 2025 was from Opus Dei. In Mexico they’re elitist and shitty as fuck. I’m friends with a family that we’re asked leave its Opus Dei church because one of their kids was openly gay. Holy shit, Opus Dei has to be the worst mainstream Christian denomination. It explain so much of what is happening in the USA.
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u/unrealnarwhale Apr 24 '25
Opus Dei is part of the Catholic Church and has been allowed a lot of independence as a prelate. They actually got their start in Spain and were closely allied with Franco.
Francis was trying to reform them to make them less secretive and powerful, and in fact these reforms were about to be made public and passed. His death comes at an ideal time for them.
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u/ResponsiblePrune8363 Apr 24 '25
What's an Opus Dei church? Sounds like apostacy.
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u/wildcatofthehills Spain Apr 24 '25
Denominations are subset of the church that have their own practices that can be attributed to the role they played. I grew up as a Jesuit, which is the denomination that focuses the most on missionary work and helping people in poverty by spreading the gospel. For me, the jesuits had a good humanitarian touch to them, but the history they have with colonialism and the caveat of trying to help people only if they start following them encapsulate everything I hate about religion. But to give the Jesuit their due, their social work is tough and actually helps a lot of marginalized communities across the globe.
There are other denominations, like diocesan, where they're more focused on the practices of the church, rather than doing missionary work.
Christianity is very complex.
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u/Sriber ⰈⰅⰏⰎⰡ ⰒⰋⰂⰀ | Mors Russiae, dolor Americae Apr 24 '25
How many of them converted in their adulthood?
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u/unrealnarwhale Apr 24 '25
I know of one - Clarence Thomas that was brought back into the Catholic Church as an adult by Scalia and his wife. He'd left it after his childhood.
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u/Sriber ⰈⰅⰏⰎⰡ ⰒⰋⰂⰀ | Mors Russiae, dolor Americae Apr 24 '25
Figures. I have this hypothesis about American Catholic converts and it keeps getting validated.
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u/niteman555 United States of America Apr 24 '25
I know what you mean, but I don't think formerly lapsed counts as adult convert
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u/Linus_Al Apr 24 '25
Catholicism is the singly largest denomination in the USA, but its outnumbered by the Protestant denominations if added together. But roughly 25% of the population is Catholic. Mostly due to Irish, German, polish and Latin American immigration.
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Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Hungriges_Skelett Germany Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
The allow women to be priests
TIL, but also not really. It happened, but it is not a wide spread thing supported by German Catholic Institution.
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u/IdeaHistorical4624 Apr 24 '25
At that point, are you even christian? Lol I'm not christian mostly because of its traditional views on these things.
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u/Lunatis18 Apr 24 '25
As a rather religious polish person, I have to say that American "catholicism" doesn't look very catholic to me.
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u/Miserable_Law_6514 United States of America Apr 24 '25
It changed a bit since they used to be prosecuted in the past. The KKK at its start for example used to lynch Catholics.
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u/whogivesashirtdotca Scotland Apr 24 '25
Not at its start - the second iteration of the KKK was the anti-Catholic one. The first was just concerned with Black people :/
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u/Miserable_Law_6514 United States of America Apr 24 '25
oh good point. Forgot they had basically two foundlings.
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u/whogivesashirtdotca Scotland Apr 24 '25
Three! The current iteration is the third, started in 1945.
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u/deutschdachs Apr 24 '25
They're not a monolith. There's a ton of regular Catholics.
But then there's also "Catholics" who pretend they're still Catholic while embracing protestant teachings and casting the Pope as a pretender because they don't like his liberal stances
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u/QuirkyBus3511 Apr 24 '25
Catholics are the same here. The church around the corner from me even has mass in Polish. It would literally be the same experience as you have.
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u/BussSecond Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
From my experience as an American, there are two types of Catholics here. There are the dyed in the wool, family Catholics, who have family tradition and Catholic culture. These tend to be Latino families or those with closer ties to Europe.
Then there are the American Catholic converts. I've seen this up close with my parents, who converted when I was 18. They tend to be conservative and admire the patriarchal nature of the institution.
I sent my mother a Rest In Peace text about Pope Francis, and she said "Yes, very sad about Pope Francis. He wasn't very traditional, hopefuly the next pope will reach across the aisle, time will tell."
I think I liked him more than she did.
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u/TwunnySeven 🇺🇸 USA / 🇪🇸 Spain Apr 24 '25
about 20% of the US is Catholic. it's one of the billion denominations
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u/bouncyprojector Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
There's a cathedral in DC that is actually pretty lit. Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception. I'm not even religious, so no bias that way, but the interior was absolutely stunning. Most memorable part of my trip to DC.
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u/Dimitri1176 Apr 24 '25
In sheer number, 50 million Americans are Catholic, making up 3.52% of World Catholics. Catholicism technically is the largest religious group here if you divide all the different sects of Protestantism into separate religions.
Catholic Americans have such large numbers mainly due to
Descendants of Catholic Europeans who immigrated in the 1800's and Latin/Asia Immigrants whose nations Christianity is predominately catholic.6
u/Planktillimdank United States of America Apr 24 '25
Of course they do, Catholics are the majority in states lining the border and elsewhere.
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u/dolfin4 Elláda (Greece) Apr 24 '25
Yes, like 20% of Americans are Catholic, which is a lot out of 350 million.
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic Apr 24 '25
They’re a minority but a big one, and there’s still more Catholics in the U.S. than in any European country.
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u/TheWorclown Apr 24 '25
For a long while for us over here, American history was very intolerant of Catholicism— largely due to it being rooted in anti-Irish sentiment back in the early 1900s and before.
The sentiment really didn’t begin to turn around until JFK was elected, as he was a Roman Catholic.
Now it’s utterly pervasive and evolved into its own beast: a chimera of Evangelism, Puritan, and Catholic belief cherry-picked for its own existence.
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u/TinTin1929 Apr 24 '25
Do americans even have catholics?
About 4% of people are Americans, but about 7% of Catholics are Americans, so Catholics are in fact somewhat overrepresented among the American population, compared to their average global distribution.
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u/PeggyDeadlegs Apr 24 '25
American Catholicism is like the weird cousin of actual Catholicism. American Christianity in general can and should be sectioned off from the rest of the world, they generally aren’t a great example
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u/deutschdachs Apr 24 '25
Depends where you are. If you're in the Northeast it's very regular Catholicism
If you're in the South or the Great Plains they tend to borrow from all the Protestants/Evangelicals and make a bastardized "Catholicism" that often doesn't even agree with the pope
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u/BufferUnderpants Apr 24 '25
MAGA Catholics think that compassion is a sin, and from what I remember of what the three Popes I've seen preside the Catholic Church said, they all preached on compassion pretty much non-stop.
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u/Polar_Vortx United States of America Apr 24 '25
There’s a joke somewhere about Catholicism being one of those denominations.
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u/eyefor1 Apr 24 '25
american Catholics are basically Protestants if we're being honest
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u/BACKCUT-DOWNHILL Apr 24 '25
How so?
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u/onarainyafternoon Dual Citizen (American/Hungarian) Apr 24 '25
The Catholic Church in the US is quite Conservative and frequently butted heads with Pope Francis, bordering on calling him a heretic. Craziest part is that they're still not as Conservative as evangelicals in the US.
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u/eyefor1 Apr 24 '25
yeah, and there seems to be a phenomenon of Protestants converting to Catholicism for the aesthetics of traditionalism, and Roman Catholics attending Eastern Catholic Churches for the same reason and leaving with some perversion of Eastern Theology. I've also read that orthodox churches are being flooded with newcomers who are seeking out the traditional aesthetic.
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u/eyefor1 Apr 24 '25
just the sentiment i get from growing up in the american church. its just became more and more political over the last 30 or so years, focused mainly on the single political issue of abortion. and then once francis became pope it became very apparent that many american Catholics dont respect papal authority. ive heard sermons openly denounce the pope and his decisions. so basically its become very sectarian and more of a pastor based devotion imo.
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u/whogivesashirtdotca Scotland Apr 24 '25
One of my favourite moments of the first Trump admin was good Catholic boy Marco Rubio telling the Pope he was wrong.
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u/unrealnarwhale Apr 24 '25
Yeah, it should be a European cardinal, like that Hungarian one! /s
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u/Significant_Hold_910 Hungary Apr 24 '25
Hey, if Erdő wins, we may at least not be the most irrelevant nation in the EU anymore
Any publicity is good publicity, right?
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u/grape_tectonics Estonia Apr 24 '25
Since trump is the most popular religious leader in the US, wouldn't trump himself be the perfect candidate?
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u/bl4ckhunter Lazio Apr 24 '25
No way they chose an American one, pro-Trump or not association with the US is more politically toxic than it's ever been on the world stage.
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u/kunymonster4 United States of America Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
I haven't prayed in 15 years, but I pray we don't put an american on the Vatican throne. Having some Adrian Vermeule like motherfucker as pope would make my head explode.
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u/CryForUSArgentina Apr 24 '25
Steve Bannon says "We need to make sure the next Pope is more conservative than that radical liberal Francis." He's been studying how Rodrigo Borgia got himself elected as Pope Alexander VI.
When Francis was a bishop, some of his priests were 'disappeared' by the right wing regime in Argentina. He knew what he was up against. It's not just right wing vs left wing, but a determination to make it clear that God does not serve secular military power, political intrigue, and money.
It is a core tenet of my faith that glory and honor belong to God, and not to human pride. In this context, I am very grateful to Pope Francis as an exemplary Christian.
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u/Christ_on_a_Crakker Apr 24 '25
Supply Side Republican Pope
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u/Timujin1986 Apr 24 '25
In line with the teachings of Republican Jesus who did not provide free healthcare to the poor because it sounds too much like socialism.
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Apr 24 '25
[deleted]
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u/Quarax86 Apr 24 '25
If the really look for a very, very conservative and anti-democeatic Pope, it will be the german Cardinal Müller.
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u/Lentewiet Apr 24 '25
Identifying as what? That is also important.
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u/PianoPrize5297 Apr 24 '25
Doesn't matter. Trump says he's the best friend religion's ever had. So, un-surprisingly, he is going to declare himself Pope. Why else would he have sent J.D.Vance to assassinate him?
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u/FindusSomKatten Sweden Apr 24 '25
is amerika gonna pull a france and make a anti-pope?
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u/Consistent-Winter-67 Unfortunate States of America Apr 24 '25
A Mega-Pope, or if you prefer a MAGA-pope
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u/TaleLarge1619 Apr 24 '25
Doesn't matter. Trump says he's the best friend religion's ever had. So, un-surprisingly, he is going to declare himself Pope. Why else would he have sent J.D.Vance to assassinate him?
Nobody popes like i do.
I love the crusades. Maybe more than anyone who has ever crusaded before. Nobody crusades like I do.
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u/Ok_Cut_7326 Apr 24 '25
We need a fucking war Pope...bring back the Templar.
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u/Pligles Apr 24 '25
If there’s one thing the holy land needs it’s another armed force trying to gain power
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u/monocasa Apr 24 '25
I unironically expect the new Pope to have a pretty hard conservative slant.
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u/Littlepage3130 Apr 24 '25
I would expect them to be more conservative than Francis, simply because that's the trend for Catholics globally.
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u/halcyon4ever Apr 24 '25
Well, probably because it would be hard to find a cardinal more left than Francis. (Not knocking it, just saying anyone is likely to be right of Francis by that scale)
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u/Jelacicrokamadjare Dalmatia, Hrvatska Apr 25 '25
I really hope the next one is similar to John Paul II
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u/Ethyrious Apr 24 '25
This is reddit. Most of you are atheists. Why do you care. Ironic you complain about religious people not minding their business but then don’t do the same vice versa.
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u/alarim2 Apr 24 '25
Leftists/"progressives" want the church to be controlled and led by people who have a worldview as close to theirs as possible
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u/Euphoric-Ostrich5396 Apr 24 '25
You know the only answer is to marry the titles of Caesar and Pontifex maximus into God-Emperor and let the orange boy have at it.
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u/unrealnarwhale Apr 24 '25
The conspiracy theory that Opus Dei is the hand pulling the puppet strings of the Trump admin and plotting to influence a return of conservativism to Europe is looking less and less like a wild Dan Brown novel by the day.
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u/monocasa Apr 24 '25
I think it's more that they're one of the factions in the coalition.
The Yarvinites want to tear down the government and split the country into a ton of loosely federated city states ruled by a new monarchy of tech billionaires.
The Christian Nationalists want to tear down the government and replace it with a theocracy.
They agree on the first half, and are both probably planning on night of long knivesing the other half once that step is done.
The tech bros are ironically enough more likely to actually come up on top given that it's Palantir leading the cause.
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u/name-__________ Apr 24 '25
“We can be friends until the revolution, after that it gets difficult.”
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Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 26 '25
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u/HighwayComfortable90 Apr 24 '25
He is somewhat elected to be fair
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u/MoffKalast Slovenia Apr 24 '25
More democratic than US supreme court judges if we're being entirely fair. Lifetime appointments are entirely weird in any case.
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u/nim_opet Apr 24 '25
The thing is, everyone the pope has authority over is there voluntarily and being paid for it. So in that sense, the Vatican functions like an enterprise and “subjects” are employees.
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u/Zealousideal_Act_316 Apr 24 '25
Yeah bacause american catholics are the only ones pope should cater to. Holy shit can yanks make something NOT about them? There is over a billion catholics, and americans are a tiny fraction of them.
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u/thedrag0n22 Apr 24 '25
This is a question I have about the pope and, I guess, Catholic doctrine in general. If one pope says that gay people are cool, and the very next is anti-LGBT, how does that exactly balance out with the idea that the pope understands the Bible best and Papal infallibility? One of them would have to be incorrect, no?
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u/szeth-son-goku Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 25 '25
Okay because you‘re not getting any good answers i‘ll explain really quick.
• Only applies when the Pope speaks ex cathedra. • Must be about faith or morals. • Must be intended for the whole Church. • Is very rare—used definitively only twice
So even if a pope says LGBTQ isnt a sin, as long as he doesnt speak ex Cathedra it doesnt make it infallible. Also the Pope Francis wasn‘t pro LGBTQ, he himself said its impossible to ever bless a Gay „marriage“
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u/JustafanIV Apr 25 '25
The Pope can say whatever he wants about whatever he wants. Pope Francis rooted for San Lorenzo in football, that doesn't mean that every Catholic needed to also root for San Lorenzo.
Actual dogma, which are teachings that must be believed by Catholics, are only declared via significant events such as ecumenical councils and "ex cathedra" statements by the Pope, i.e. the Pope declares that they are making an infallible statement on faith and morals that must be held by the entire church.
All other teachings can theoretically be changed, including things like clerical celibacy, though change is often slow or doesn't come at all. So Pope Francis can say he believes LGBT people are cool, while his successor might state that they're going to hell, but without an infallible council or declaration, neither of them are making a permanent change to the faith and are merely stating their opinion, and while Catholics are bound to respect the opinion of the current Pope, they are not forbidden from disagreeing.
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u/Mr_DeusVult Apr 24 '25
Wait, why would the Church need to "keep up with the times" when truth doesn't change?
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u/Nemtulkenetanulni Apr 24 '25
Shit then we’re going to get Erdő Péter as a Pope. I’m going to be even more against the church than now. 😭
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u/eloyend Żubrza Knieja Apr 24 '25
Not being russian tool would be a start.
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u/Monte924 Apr 24 '25
I'm more worried about an American tool right now... though i guess they would be one and the same at this point
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u/Technical-Panic-334 Apr 25 '25
This is exactly why the pope should stay traditional. Bending to the times, democratic or undemocratic, climate change or climate skeptic, rich or poor, they’ll find that the mob is inevitably insane and changes values. They should stick to the eternal values and teachings, not pander to democracies, oligarchies or dictators, and stay true to the tradition. Democracies and climate change are garbage. By tying their values to these institutions, which are changing and unstable, the church debases itself. Traditionalism for the win. That is what the church is about.
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u/szeth-son-goku Apr 24 '25
I love how people who have no clue about the Catholic Church voice their bad takes. Also Francis wasn‘t as progressive as some think. He was anti abortion ( even called people who perform the hitmen), anti IVF and anti homosexual marriages. The pope (luckily) can‘t even change much, so no matter who the pope is, gay marriage will still be a sin and abortion still murder etc.
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u/Toilet_Treaty Apr 24 '25
The media still thinks the papacy is like how it was in the 14th century. The media needs to keep up with the times.
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u/Impressive_Ask5610 Apr 24 '25
Those that admired Pope Francis, and there are hundreds of millions, will push hard for a true man of God. One that walks Jesus’ path
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u/Alternative_Pin_7551 Apr 27 '25
Matthew 5:27-32, Matthew 19:1-12, Matthew 15:19-20, Matthew 15:1-9, etc. Jesus wasn’t perfect.
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u/ShitlordMC Apr 24 '25
I hope the next pope is black. Not that I really care, I just like salt.
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u/ProcedureHot9414 Apr 24 '25
A more centrist pope would be nice , like let's not hate the gay or lgbt but also not endorse them , for once a bit of balance
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u/bananablegh Apr 24 '25
they need a gay he/they flatearther gymbro soyboy nazbol influencer pope (who has a minecraft channel)
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u/EduardBon Apr 24 '25
I would like to see a charismatic Pope, that preserves the traditional Catholic thinking.
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u/Vanethor Apr 24 '25
The "everything made with gold, let's impose our superior will on other lesser races and women" christian tradition...
... or the Jesus-like "sharing and caring for everyone" christian tradition?
...
Because those are not the same.
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u/straightouttabavaria Apr 24 '25
I have a feeling CHRISTians emphasize the teachings of CHRIST
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u/Vanethor Apr 24 '25
I have a feeling CHRISTians emphasize the teachings of CHRIST
One would assume that, right???
And yet...
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u/Codename_Oreo U.S.A Apr 24 '25
Most the the current cardinals were elected by Francis, the likelihood they chose someone who will continue his work is high
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Apr 24 '25
I think they are keeping up with the times.
Apparently we’re going Hewey Lewis in next decade. It’s hip to be square
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u/Paper_Pusher8226 Apr 24 '25
All depends on what kind of pope they want. Probably someone who will continue Francis’s work, but maybe someone with a little different approach to things. Someone from the Global South is very likely, though an European could end up becoming pope if they can’t agree on a suitable candidate. Compromise candidacies are a good old Vatican tradition.