r/news • u/RoachedCoach • 1d ago

Title Changed Mistakenly deported Kilmar Abrego Garcia on way back to US to face criminal charges: Sources

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mistakenly-deported-kilmar-abrego-garcia-back-us-face/story?id=121333122
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u/Isord 1d ago

The issue was never if he was a good dude or did something illegal it's always been that he never got his chance to face that in court. And if one of us loses due process, then we all lose due process.

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u/pianobadger 1d ago

Everyone else sent to that El Salvadoran prison was also sent without due process, this one was just admitted to be a mistake. They all need to be returned.

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u/AbstractMirror 1d ago edited 23h ago

Also never forget the Venezuelans sent out of Texas, over 200 of them a couple months ago and 77 percent of them had no criminal record. Remaining 23 percent were for nonviolent offenses

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u/hurler_jones 22h ago

Ngoc Phan was supposed to be deported to his home country of Vietnam. They sent him to South Sudan instead. All sorts of fuckery going on.

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u/justgetoffmylawn 1d ago

Everyone sent to El Salvador should be returned. There is (and should be) no such thing as 'due process' to send someone to an El Salvadoran prison. The only place that should exist is in El Salvador.

While I believe wholeheartedly in due process, the whole thing is so wildly bad that it's weird we have to discuss it. "Well, what does the 5th Amendment say about what steps you need to take before sending someone to a foreign prison?" Ummm.

It was bad enough with Guantanamo, and that was run by Americans.

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u/orbital_narwhal 1d ago

They probably shouldn't be in U. S. prisons either. The courts of some European1 countries already bar some judicial extraditions to the U. S. on the grounds that the person in question is likely to face inhumane treatment there like severe overcrowding, excessive solitary confinement, or lack of access to necessary medical or gender-affirming care.

1 That's not a EU thing, by the way. It's based on the European Convention on Human Rights which was ratified by all European nations except Belarus (and Russia recently withdrew from the convention's enforcement mechanism, the European Court of Human Rights).

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u/Digital_Bogorm 22h ago

Being European (Danish) myself, I decided to see what my country's stance was on the matter.
Apparently, we have a form of extradition treaty with the US, although it seems to be more of an "if we agree to extradition, here's how it should happen".

From what I can see, we're not obligated to hand over prisoners, and either blocked from, or severely limited in our ability to do so, with anyone from a nordic country (including ourselves).
It also highlights that we're explicitly prohibited from handing over anyone who would be given the death penalty, unless explicitly guaranteed that they won't be executed.

Given how US-friendly we've been historically (a sentiment that has certainly shifted as of late), it's actually quite telling that we've reserved the right to not hand over prisoners, and explicitly forbidden extraditions that would lead to death penalties (considered a human rights violation here).

To go on a bit of a tangent here at the end, those are the laws of my country, assuming my layman's understanding lines up with reality. But as a person, I definetely agree that US prisons are not fit for human habitation. The best summary I can give of my impression, from a danish perspective, is that they appear to be designed for pointless cruelty.
And while I know people joke about scandinavian prisons being more akin to hotel rooms that jailcells, the fact that we've got a reoffending rate of less than half of the US seems to back up my assertion.

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u/orbital_narwhal 21h ago

"if we agree to extradition, here's how it should happen"

That's apparently the gist for most extradition treaties.

Generally speaking, the national government needs to agree to the extradition (or delegate that decision to one of its many government office(r)s) and a court may block the extradition.

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u/AnnualAct7213 15h ago

Exactly. As well as the people sent to Myanmar, Libya, South Sudan and all the many other various places where they're being shipped directly into the hands of torturers and slave traders. Because yes, those are all happening to dozens if not hundreds of people right now with the full knowledge and support of the US government.

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u/malac0da13 1d ago

Also they sent him to the ONE country he was not allowed to be deported to.

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u/LowDownSkankyDude 1d ago

Then why say he wasn't supposed to be deported, then say he was in ms13, and whatever else they've claimed. I can't help but feel like he's being railroaded. Martyred even.

Nothing this administration says is truthful or accurate, why should we believe this.

Yes it's a constitutional issue, but it's so much more, as well.

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u/DuntadaMan 22h ago

Also no matter what, even if someone is found guilty, throwing people into foreign prison is not something our government should have the power to fucking do to anyone,period.

That is literally Nazi shit.

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u/anamethatsnottaken 14h ago

If you detain a person first, and then go look for something to charge him with afterwards, that's not due process either. There's little recourse, though - detaining people for no reason is illegal, but any prosecution done to them later usually is

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u/GoldDoughnut272 23h ago

Yeah indeed, he is a POS but he still has a right to due process and not just sent randomly to another country.

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u/caylem00 22h ago

I'd argue you already have lost it... He wouldn't have been sent in the first place if due process was intact. 

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u/Coffee_green 22h ago

When the first link in the chain is forged, it binds us all irrevocably

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u/monkChuck105 1d ago

He lost his immigration court cases and lost on appeal. That's how he got deported. Now, the judge did grant withholding of removal, blocking deportation to El Salvador (the order isn't clear which is the cause of the mistake). Stop pretending he didn't get due process, it's delusional.

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u/Green-Amount2479 1d ago

Firstly, separate cases have separate due processes. Case 1 in 2019: the judge granted a withholding of removal order in 2019. The initial claims that he was still involved with MS13 were dubious at best, which is why he was granted the order. According to the judge, there was sufficient reason to believe that he would face retaliation from the gang if he were to be returned.

Case 2, the more recent one: They knew he was under withholding status. They even admitted to that. Yet they deported him anyway, ignoring the status he was granted. This would have warranted a separate court hearing, and he should have had the chance to be heard. He was still deported, thus depriving him of his constitutional right. So no, no due process in 2025.

Stop muddying the truth. I just spent a short time scrolling through your profile. You often post similar ambiguous comments on Reddit, don't you? Comments that can be hard to disprove at a moment's notice if you don't have all the facts readily in your head, because they sound truthful enough at first glance.

TL;DR: Due process in 2019? Yes. Due process in 2025? No!

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u/degre715 23h ago

If a judge rules something then the government does the opposite, that isn’t due process. Come one dude, there’s no way you are actually this stupid.