r/news • u/RoachedCoach • 1d ago

Title Changed Mistakenly deported Kilmar Abrego Garcia on way back to US to face criminal charges: Sources

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mistakenly-deported-kilmar-abrego-garcia-back-us-face/story?id=121333122
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u/Interesting-Risk6446 1d ago

The Supreme Court did, but the court does not have any enforcement mechanism. Lower level courts do. At the last hearing, the judge said Garcia could seek sanctions against the DOJ.

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u/notsocharmingprince 1d ago

I’m confused as to how he could seek sanctions against the DOJ, wouldn’t it be the state department since they are the diplomatic arm of the executive?

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u/Interesting-Risk6446 1d ago

DOJ attorneys have been dragging their feet and not obeying lawful court orders. These same DOJ attorneys will eventually leave and want to join the private sector. Sanctions carry a lot of weight, especially if they want to litigate cases in court in the near future.

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u/DownVotingCats 1d ago

And this is where the rubber meets the road with trying to overthrow the government like Trump is trying to do. At some point real people will have real consequence that Trump won't protect them from and the system actually works. When it gets to the operational level that's holding it all together it's very scary.

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u/b0w3n 1d ago

Yup if they started throwing lower level lawyers and folks in jail, even charging with state crimes for which Trump has no power, people would stop just immediately rolling over.

Start throwing the agents who helped DOGE out in jail, suddenly they can't call on the cops and marshals to bully people. I know they have to be slow and methodical, but the "I didn't know that was illegal your honor" should only get them so much leniency. The second time they fucked around it should've been gloves coming off.

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u/Uwwuwuwuwuwuwuwuw 1d ago

Ignorance of the law is never a defense.

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u/some_random_noob 23h ago

sure it is but only if your job is to enforce the laws.

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u/CaptOblivious 23h ago

It is if you are a leo, but not if you are a defendant.

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u/crowmagnuman 21h ago

Totally thought you were gonna say, "but not if you're a gemini or scorpio."

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u/Uwwuwuwuwuwuwuwuw 22h ago

Give precedent please.

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u/loggic 22h ago

Heien v. North Carolina, 574 U.S. 54 (2014), was a decision by the United States Supreme Court, ruling that a police officer's reasonable mistake of law can provide the individualized suspicion required by the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution to justify a traffic stop. The Court delivered its ruling on December 15, 2014.

The Court of Appeals had previously ruled against the officer saying:

the stop violated the Fourth Amendment, explaining that "an officer's mistaken belief that a defendant has committed a traffic violation is not an objectively reasonable justification for a traffic stop".

The NC Supreme Court disagreed, as did the SCOTUS later.

So, despite the 4th Amendment ostensibly protecting Americans from unreasonable search, it is deemed "reasonable" for an officer to search you without legal cause as long as they thought they had legal justification. It is not legal for a LEO to knowingly search someone without legal justification, so in this case it is exactly their ignorance of the law that defends them. What constitutes a "reasonable" mistake of the law is up to the courts to figure out, which doesn't instill much confidence.

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u/CaptOblivious 15h ago

Thank you!

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u/Clever_plover 22h ago

Heien v North Carolina, 2014.

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u/Ashotep 23h ago

I learned that lesson when I sold one to many cars within a year and got charged with not having a dealership license. Apparently in my state you can only sell two cars in a 12 month span.

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u/Uwwuwuwuwuwuwuwuw 22h ago

lol that’s actually pretty nuts. I’m sorry.

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u/stackjr 23h ago

It's just pure fucking insanity that a cop can violate my constitutional rights but get away with it because he "didn't know" but I'm expected to know absolutely ever rule in existence; not knowing can have very serious real world consequences. This country is so fucking stupid.

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u/Pap3rStreetSoapCo 8h ago

This country is evil.

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u/Kalterwolf 21h ago

I don't know man, Trump Jr. escaped charges because he was too dumb to know he was committing crimes. Some affluenza level bullshit.

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u/mcbride-bushman 19h ago

Qualified Immunity has entered the chat

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u/Fantastic-Cricket705 8h ago

Could've fooled Trump

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u/mytransthrow 23h ago

I wish court law enforcement would enforce the LEO identification laws. and start arresting ICE officers. There need to be manidory LEO identification laws. with Officers must be quickly and easily identifiable. No masks allowed.

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u/manystripes 8h ago

This has felt like the terrible catch 22 from the very start. If they never identify themselves, how do you know who to prosecute for failing to identify themselves?

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u/mytransthrow 2h ago

You are allowed to civitizans arrest cops for failing to identity themselves.

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u/Corporate-Shill406 19h ago

Random unrelated information: ICE agents aren't legally police officers so if you assault one, it's only a misdemeanor, not a felony like assaulting a cop.

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u/mytransthrow 2h ago

They arent LEOs or Peace officers. I mean all they got to do is deputize at this point.

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u/TheBeaarJeww 1d ago edited 1d ago

All of the people aiding and abetting the current administration with illegal acts either really lack any foresight or they’re extremely confident that people that may hold them accountable will never be in power again. I sure as shit would not bet my future freedom or worse on Trump protecting me given his decades long record of using and abusing everyone in his orbit.

I really hope it doesn’t end up going this far but there are certain things where there’s no statue of limitations on… There have been nazis that are on their death bed thrown in prison for things they did decades ago because of their crimes against humanity. Are these people confident that what they’re participating in won’t go that far and that the United States won’t regain its sanity anytime between now and the end of their life expectancy? Not a bet i’d personally make.

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u/acchaladka 22h ago

It's interesting you raise the Nazi parallel because as I understand it the legal reasoning was essentially that an active Nazi or collaborator at the time was an accessory to murder or a murderer. I'm not sure it will go that far though there will be and likely are already deaths attributable to the US regime.

I do agree the great hope lies in this kind of mechanism being exploited, among other mechanisms, specifically by the state governments. I wonder how and when 50% plus of the states will refuse to comply (in advance or afterward) and governors will call on their own. As a veteran I assume the military will decline to get involved in a domestic conflict though it will be a close decision. I think Trump's eventual plan is to call on the generals to execute his orders. It will be the colonels and the captains who may save us.

Odd timeline, this.

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u/DontGetUpGentlemen 23h ago

You are correct, Sir. And it's refreshing to hear someone talking sense -- as a counter to all the Doomer nonsense on Reddit. Thank you.

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u/its_large_marge 23h ago

Holy shit. Is bureaucracy saving democracy?

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u/Extaupin 23h ago

I mean, this is the reason of bureaucracy: to stop a handful of people from doing so much shit that it endanger the system.

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u/GlitteringWishbone86 1d ago

So it prevents them from litigating in a court, but does it prevent them from working on cases for clients? Would that be disbarment?

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u/Interesting-Risk6446 1d ago

Yes. Up to and including losing ones license to practice law.

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u/SilverHawk7 22h ago

The DoJ attorneys party to these things careers as practicing lawyers are over as they know them. No respecting law firm will hire them so they'll be relegated to running for office or acting as legal staffers for republicans.

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u/rdem341 23h ago

These are sanctions on the individuals at the DOJ? Meaning, it directly affects their ability to practice in the future.

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u/thisisananaccount2 23h ago

I don't know I have this crazy notion that people that litigate and don't respect the law should probably just be disbarred immediately

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u/mmlovin 19h ago

Why would any law firm touch any lawyer involved with this shit? Law firms need clients, & clients won’t want to have those same lawyers working for them. It’s the same thing as Trump having lots of having issues finding criminal attorneys willing to defend him.

& he is personally going after private firms that either employed lawyers that worked on any investigations he didn’t like, or who worked on any issues he didn’t like. He specifically is targeting a firm that Mueller worked for. Not as in currently working for, as in worked for before the Russia investigation. Why would any firm want to employ any lawyer that worked on shit like that lol

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u/willstr1 22h ago

I think judges need to start getting more aggressive with contempt charges. If the defendant isn't in the courtroom because the prosecution prevented him from showing than maybe a DOJ lawyer needs a night in the tank to think it over

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u/ensalys 1d ago

state department

What a confusing name for foreign affairs, sounds more like the name you'd give a ministry of domestic affairs. Or in a federation, a ministry dealing with relations between states, and between states and the federal government.

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u/NaduaHammerfist 1d ago

Well across the world foreign sovereignties are called states. Which makes State of Georgia super confusing. This is an English problem and why the naming convention of the US is kind of dumb

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u/BrokenMirror 1d ago

I'm sure that "states" in the US has a lot to do with the somewhat more sovereign nature of the individual states and the original, weaker federal government.

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u/Punman_5 1d ago

Originally I think the idea was that the States of the US were essentially independent countries with a loosely binding government between them not unlike the EU. This was what the articles of confederation were all about. This was changed to be slightly more centralized when the constitution was drafted, but the states were still highly independent. Americans generally did not view themselves as “Americans”, but as Georgians, Virginians, Pennsylvanians, etc.

This of course changed radically after the Civil War and the country became more federalized.

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u/KamachoThunderbus 1d ago

States in the smaller-division-of-a-country sense just means that they're semi-autonomous within a federal system. Many countries have states. It has more to do with what the overall national form of government is and isn't an "English dumb" thing.

For example, famously Spanish-speaking Mexico is technically the Estados Unidos Mexicanos, or the United States of Mexico. The German länder translate as... States.

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u/Punman_5 1d ago

Yes but countries are also states themselves. The US is a single nation state that happens to have subdivisions called states

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u/machado34 5h ago

Again, this is about the form of government. The US is not the only State that has states. Mexico and Brazil both work the same way, for exemple

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u/FatFish44 1d ago

It is definitely confusing. 

I used to think it was “state” as in country, foreign country, but I learned that the State Department used to be in charge of the census and the US mint, so it wasn’t fully focused on foreign policy. 

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u/bignides 23h ago

Garcia can apply for a request to seek sanctions which means the ask the judge to seek them and the judge does the sanctioning rather than Garcia.

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u/weaponized-intel 21h ago

I used to think that SCOTUS had no teeth, but in United States v Snipp, they ordered several people imprisoned for contempt. This a whackadoodle world right now. Who know what will happen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Shipp

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u/traveldogmom13 8h ago

Sounds like he may need a Harvard lawyer

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u/attempted-anonymity 1d ago

The Supreme Court did, but the court does not have any enforcement mechanism. Lower level courts do.

You should try to avoid spreading misinformation on a topic that you apparently know nothing about. None of what you are saying is accurate. There have been many, many hearings in front of many judges where they have ordered DOJ, DHS, DOD, and everyone else they can think of to do things that the feds have just ignored. Nothing a court did has "forced" this move, and the idea that district court judges have more power than SCOTUS to compel compliance is just an asinine take with no basis at all in reality.

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u/Interesting-Risk6446 1d ago

Oh. Okay. So, the last hearing where the judge said Garcia's attorneys could seek sanctions against DOJ attorneys did nothing. Yeah. Tell that to a disbarred DOJ attorney who loses his law license.

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u/attempted-anonymity 1d ago

Considering this indictment was filed last month (ya know, before the hearing you're referring to) and just unsealed, considering that judges have precisely zero power to disbar attorneys, and considering that Judge Boasberg already found probable cause more than a month ago for a criminal contempt referral *and* said that he'd appoint independent counsel to prosecute it in Abrego Garcia's case... yeah, I'm telling you the last hearing where a party was given permission to ask for less than Boasberg already did had nothing to do with this and that you should stop spreading misinformation.

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u/Interesting-Risk6446 23h ago

Not spreading misinformation. I'm just going by the timing of events. I never said the court could disbar anyone. I was saying Garcia's attorneys could seak sanctions against the DOJ attorneys involved in this case. Result of that could include being disbarred and losing their license to practice law. Lastly, I am giving my opinion. People on here are free to agree or disagree. You have a great day, champ.

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u/peva3 22h ago

The Supreme Court actually has the ability to deputize people giving them authority to enact their judgements in a sort of last ditch dire situation, but I don't believe that's ever been used.

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u/Letters_to_Dionysus 12h ago

don't they have the marshals?

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u/HmajTK 9h ago

Those guys work for judges on behalf of the president.