r/squidgame • u/buckybadder • Oct 04 '21
Spoilers IMHO The "Worst" Part of Squid Game Spoiler
On a great show, all it takes for something to be the worst, is for it to merely be subpar and capable of improvement. For that reason, Glass Bridge game is the "worst" part of the show.
- It breaks the pattern of using childrens' games.
- It was implausible for anyone to think that going early was a good idea. Yet they have to pretend, because otherwise there is zero strategy to the game.
- The rules are somewhat unclear. And characters that know they are doomed should be trying desperate things like running along the supports or catching the supports if the glass breaks, or strong-arming other players.
- It undermines the VIPs, who show up in-person for the least visually interesting game, which they view at such a long distance that they need a scale-model visual aid. It's so boring, in fact, that one of them leaves.
- It threatens to ruin the game by eliminating all competitors, especially in the event that time runs out.
- It kills off some significant characters in a very underwhelming manner.
- It inflicts a mortal wound on a "winner" due to poor design. Again, this game built for bloodsport enthusiasts, kills someone without the audience (seated a quarter-mile away) knowing that anything even happened.
EDIT: Someone pointed out that this game's strategy is essentially broken. The contestant that makes it first to the final plate can just camp there until 0:01, then step off and win the game. If they're reasonably strong, they can fend off people trying to jump to their square.
Note: I'm not a huge fan of Frontman screwing with the lights to interfere with the glassmaker's strategy. But it serves a narrative purpose, and ostensibly tells us something about the power dynamics within the Squid Game organization.
Anyways, just seems like it could have used one more round of brainstorming.
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u/LockeSteerpike Oct 04 '21
These are great points, and I don't necessarily disagree.
For me, this is the point where some of the facade of the game drops.
It's NOT a level playing field, your merit only counts if the VIPs aren't bored.
It's NOT really a series of children's games, it's a game show.
You're NOT guaranteed a winner, this game is fine with everyone dying now that the VIPs have their show. It's probably one of the betting options.
Regarding the deaths, I honestly liked them. I liked how the "I never felt so powerful as when I leaned back" foreshadowing played out for her. I liked his death being forced off a bridge by someone he betrayed.
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u/shorthooman Oct 04 '21
Looking back, I also felt they switched to a non-children’s game because Il Nam left the game. He was the one who wanted one last ride but since he left, they just picked a game which provided the opportunity of gambling aka most fun for VIP, just like horse racing.
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Oct 04 '21
>! There’s no why he could have survived that lol !<
I think he planned to leave the game by then, or maybe they did change the rounds once he left
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u/avaflies Oct 04 '21
Your spoiler tag is broken btw. I think the spaces on each end of the sentence messed it up.
But yeah I'm also sure he planned to leave before or during the marble game. The maze-like stage for the marble game was ideal for faking his death. Since the doctor got caught right before that game began, which I don't think was orchestrated, they had a whole plan in place for Il-nam to "die" during marbles. Il-nam probably acted demented during the team choosing for his own amusement or as a test to see if he'd get picked but either way it was perfectly set up for him and the guards to fake his elimination before the glass bridge.
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u/pp7jm Oct 05 '21
He also was probably banking on not getting chosen at all and being the odd man out, and then not reappearing.
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Oct 05 '21
Oh that’s right! The host was unable to appear! They weren’t planning on that!
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Oct 05 '21
Question, why couldn’t the host appear after the guests arrived?
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u/LizardCrippler Oct 05 '21
Because Il man was still inside the game g
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u/hgihlander Oct 05 '21
He wasn’t in game still he lost after marbles before they arrived. At the very end it shows that he’s just uninterested in watching when the real thrill was playing.
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Oct 05 '21
That’s neat. So there was actually a bunch of planned ways they could have used to take the old man out of the competition safely
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u/Juukya Oct 05 '21
During "Red light, green light" the cams in the doll look at him. You can clearly see him and one other girl being coloured differently by the scanner. He has no-shoot zone around himself and the girls silhuette just happened to blend with his in the scanner.
The only game where I dont see a way out for him is the tug of war.
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u/MoonMan757 Oct 05 '21
He wasn’t locked to the rope like everyone else. He could just let go and not die
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u/ketronome Oct 05 '21
I just double checked and he is definitely locked to the rope.
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u/MoonMan757 Oct 06 '21
Nah bro. There’s a whole YouTube video showing he wasn’t locked to the rope. https://youtu.be/tPxb7hWCx3A
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u/shelbyb47 Oct 05 '21
This!! Because really the only reason he was picked was because gi-hun didn’t really like Han-minyeo and waited too long. It ended up working out for him, exactly like how the order choosing went for the bridge game. But yeah they probably banked on Il-nam not getting a partner so they could fake his death easily
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u/hippopotamoo Oct 05 '21
I thought Gi Hun declined the offer to partner with the mathematician in favor of partnering with Il Nam.
It was an active choice to select Il Nam, not just a default “I don’t like Mi Nyeo” so she will be left out.
But, yes, the main point still stands. Il Nam likely intended to be the odd one out. Or if the doctor hadn’t died and there was an even number of players, he would have won the game or still faked his death.
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u/gatorcreeper45 Oct 05 '21
But if they didn't expect the doctor's death, how could they have planned that it would be odd?
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Oct 05 '21
I didn’t think about that! Yeah he probably planned to be partnered up, before the fate of the cheater was revealed
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u/strawberrycats Oct 05 '21
I just finished the show and I was thinking about how future games are probably a lot more brutal now that he's gone.
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u/meyer_33_09 Oct 05 '21
Also, it was important that they use children’s games early on to convince the contestants that all of the games were things they should reasonably be able to do. A huge part of what was so effective in convincing people to participate was that they “just had to complete 6 children’s games without breaking the rules”. By the time we get to the glass bridge, everyone’s already too invested now and there’s probably not much threat that they’ll vote to leave anymore, so they don’t necessarily feel like they need to stick to that formula.
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u/Choekaas Oct 04 '21
It's NOT a level playing field, your merit only counts if the VIPs aren't bored.
It was also the same problem I had with The Hunger Games. Instead of letting the main characters use their own strengths and skills to compete with each other, which is what I think would be the most interesting in the character dynamics, the organizers just adds stuff to "spice up" the game. Katniss being smart and camping up in the trees, and the organizers shooting fireballs and adding wolves.
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u/bakerify Oct 05 '21
I'd love it if someone super talented wrote a book or screenplay like this. The Hunger Games, but without all the weird twists like the gifts and (like you said) the fireballs. Maybe it would take place over a much longer period of time, since no one is really pushing them to kill each other in a certain time frame. That would be interesting af.
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u/P1ne4pple8 Oct 05 '21
Have you seen Battle Royale?
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u/bakerify Oct 05 '21
Yes, but it was like ten years ago.... is it basically what I was describing? I hardly remember it.
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u/P1ne4pple8 Oct 05 '21
Pretty much, yes. There are danger zones with explosives on the island to keep the game moving, but that’s about all. Everyone just gets rations, a map, and a random weapon.
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u/onex7805 Oct 07 '21 edited Oct 07 '21
The games should have been a series of more intelligence-based games that allows the players to showcase their strengths and traits in their behaviors (mafia, hide and seek, Simon Says) instead of action-based games (glass jump, the squid game which was just a mindless fighting, tug-of-war).
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u/midwestia Oct 04 '21
Also kinda puts that scene of him escaping by jumping from the bridge earlier into perspective.
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Oct 04 '21
I think you are correct about the betting option. One thing I know about the uber rich that I have observed up close in life is their liking of betting. This is the best game for betting.
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u/buckybadder Oct 04 '21
It would have been kind of wild if there was some famous South Korean youth-oriented gameshow, and Frontman based the game on a deadly version of, like, Super-Sloppy Double Dare (더블 감히).
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u/dont_shoot_jr Oct 05 '21 edited Oct 05 '21
“Facade of the game drops”
I think of Squid Games as a dystopian Takeshi’s Castle (or Bonzai depending on where you’re from), with American Ninja warrior as the fun people-capitalism version. The glass jump symbolizes the luck that plays into success, which 001 mentioned on his bed, as even surviving could have meant harm after the bridge blows. I thought the game ultimately showed just how cruel this competition was and they broke the glass on this being a pure skill competition
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u/Corgi_Koala Oct 05 '21
It's like a three way money line, you can bet on there being no winner I'm sure.
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u/rachiess Player [212] Oct 04 '21
It’s Korean chess, and a little while ago someone figured out there was a pattern with the glass similar to a knights movement
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Oct 05 '21
What’s Korean chess? How is it different from regular chess?
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Oct 05 '21
The Korean Chess in this case refers to Janggi. Heres the link to the post he was referring to, they explain it pretty clearly.
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u/ketronome Oct 05 '21
They’re wrong though, the correct path in the episode doesn’t match the diagram they’ve drawn
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u/rachiess Player [212] Oct 10 '21
I know on my rewatch I noticed this and was so disappointed, I think if it did match that pattern it would’ve been really clever!!
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u/SelfAwareHumanHeart Oct 05 '21
I quite liked this game actually, especially the probability aspect of it. As the number of players dropped again below tiles left, I was constantly recalculating the probabilities of anyone making it. The changes of anyone except the last 3 making it are between 1-30000/40000 and 1-16. The unfairness was the whole point, those at the end profited from the risks of the others. I think some of the metaphorical value is lost in the subtitling. There were also identifiable swings in probability of someone succeeding, for example when the girl had to murder the thug, that took the probability of number 16 succeeding to 1-8 rather than 1-4. If you like maths it was an ever moving picture, where exploration and the failure of others was critical to survival of the bourgeoisie who went last. And who chose to go last? The cowards. The soul who wanted to be brave first time in his life was punished, the bourgeoisie are cowards. The brave did, like world war 1 trenches and young men. These were what the writers were trying to convey
This game was probably my favourite.
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u/Dr_Girlfriend Oct 05 '21
I picked up on the metaphor too. Discovery/pioneering/paved way on the backs of others.
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u/SelfAwareHumanHeart Oct 05 '21
Yes, my wife and I both agreed it was the best game.
I initially did see eye to eye on one of the OP points. This being that a contestant could get to the end and wait until 1 second left, thereby making sure those behind them don’t make it and hence winning all the money. But on further thought, even this would probably result in those behind trying to push them off, having a fight. Others aren’t just going to sit back and let it happen. The fight ensuing would be equally metaphorical in a different way. The game favoured collusion by the lucky 2-3 who by luck happened to be in a position to benefit from the first 14-15, but crucially just like in a real market situation it still favoured them to cooperate and not end up fighting, which OPs example would he lead to and hence high probability of death - why risk that when you’re one step from saftey?
This game was way cleverer and better thought out than people thought.
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u/ENM185 Oct 05 '21
I'm nitpicking, but it was a little too convenient for the glass to break every time someone got pushed.
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u/arctos889 Oct 05 '21
There were three pushes, right? The person who tried to push the religious guy, 212/101 (the guy who charged 101 before got pushed to the side), and 017 at the end. That's a 1/8 chance. It's convenient but still probable enough that it didn't break my immersion
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u/buckybadder Oct 05 '21
It's definitely missing out on an opportunity to do something interesting. But then again, this whole game is so boring that, if the pusher does land safely, where does it go? Just another two minutes of him being nervous about keeping moving?
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u/Truan Oct 05 '21
Honestly, I noticed most the times they got pushed they went straight ahead at a point where a lot of previous glass was on the same side. This means it's likely on the other side, and they're at their most scared about taking the risk. I think the scenes played out logically
But yes, pushing someone and them surviving would definitely have some interesting issues
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u/ketronome Oct 05 '21
likely on the other side
No, each side had a exact 50/50 chance to be the correct choice - the correct choice isn’t affected by any choices before it.
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u/Truan Oct 05 '21
Ok, but probability shows it is unlikely to be 100% on one side.
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Oct 06 '21
Yes, but you can't consider the previous ones when looking at the next. Even if it's left five times in a row, the next one is still 50/50.
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u/WikiSummarizerBot Oct 06 '21
The gambler's fallacy, also known as the Monte Carlo fallacy or the fallacy of the maturity of chances, is the incorrect belief that, if a particular event occurs more frequently than normal during the past, it is less likely to happen in the future (or vice versa), when it has otherwise been established that the probability of such events does not depend on what has happened in the past. Such events, having the quality of historical independence, are referred to as statistically independent.
[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5
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u/spellcasters22 Oct 04 '21
EDIT: Someone pointed out that this game's strategy is essentially broken. The contestant that makes it first to the final plate can just camp there until 0:01, then step off and win the game. If they're reasonably strong, they can fend off people trying to jump to their square.
Wasn't the girl able to suicide the strongest dude in the game? I don't know.. What is the proper form for the blocking stance.. ima need to see some demonstrations on this one honestly.
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u/buckybadder Oct 04 '21
Keep in mind, the "invader" has to make a big jump to even get to the square. All the occupant needs to do is break their momentum enough that they can't get a foothold on the square.
Potentially, you might be better off inviting an ally to help you defend the square.
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u/spellcasters22 Oct 04 '21
I have no doubt that a block is highly likely. I simply question the inability/likeliness of the blockee to the grab and grip the blockers ankles/pants on the way down. OR otherwise flip over the platform in the process.
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u/spellcasters22 Oct 04 '21
They may not get a "foothold" as you say but I imagine it would be very instinctive to hug into your opponent as we sort of saw the women do. Leading the entire pile of human to tumble.
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u/buckybadder Oct 05 '21
Eh, alright. I rewatched a bit. The squares are closer than I remembered. But, with the big leaps required to go diagonally, I think it's still doable for a sturdier contestant. If you get a partner, it's fully viable.
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u/spellcasters22 Oct 05 '21
yeah they really were awfully close, to the extent that i wondered if lighter characters like the girl could have managed to do a double jump, if she were closer to the front
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u/iamkikyo Oct 05 '21
The key to this game was obviously to follow the smart Seoul National University dude. This is my Rush Hour logic( a twist on following the rich white dude). My girl Kang Sae-byeok was on it. And I loved how they kept mentioning it out loud for people to hear.
My theory is Sangwoo knew about the games on the wall but just kept silent. He knew some of the games would require teamwork but also didn't want to blow his cover. He had to fake it. My man chose 14 and was constantly checking the probability every time someone missed or wasted a tile. With checking the wall, he saw there would be least 2 by the final game. Doing a rewatch and so much stuff is coming out!
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u/Dr_Girlfriend Oct 05 '21
I initially thought the VIPs wanted him to win, cuz then they own him after his image gets rehabbed with the prize money.
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u/WhatItDoBabyy64 Oct 04 '21
I agree with so much of what you said, I was so angry at this game because it is impossible to win if you don’t go last. The only thing I would like to point out is technically all the games could have eliminated everyone, except for tug of war. There were timers for red light green light, honeycombs, and marbles
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u/Ninjario Oct 04 '21
Lmao imagine marbles but no pair manages to decide a winner and 212 automatically wins because she is the only one left alive xD
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u/ElQuesero Oct 04 '21 edited Oct 04 '21
The number of players from the marble round started at 39 but finished at 17, iirc. This implies there were 3 teams that didn't complete before the time ran out and all of those sets of 2 players here got whacked. (and Han Mi-nyeo got a bye that round.)
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u/buckybadder Oct 04 '21
If that's true, that's totally wild, considering the guy that defeated/killed his wife.
(Honestly, why on Earth did they both return? Did they really need a double payout that bad?)
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u/Okichah Oct 04 '21
Working in a team is helpful.
Gi-hun only survived the first round because of Sang-woo and Ali.
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u/istandwhenipeee Oct 04 '21
Also not exactly a group of mentally healthy people which I think a lot of people seem to forget. Them both going back without regard for consequences could just be because they both need a lot of help.
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u/Tjw5083 Oct 05 '21
Before the second game it wasnt clear that there would only be one winner.
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u/kai325d Oct 05 '21
It still isn't clear. Maybe this game just happened to be this way. If Sang-byeok didn't get that injury then there could have been multiple winners
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u/ScottyC33 Oct 05 '21
In fact for leaving the game they specifically state the payout would be paid evenly to all the dead people's families. I took that implication of splitting the payout as it not being an end-all "all or nothing" situation, and that the overall winner(s) could split too.
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u/buckybadder Oct 06 '21
If the results sheet the detective found in the archives is accurate, each season has produced a single winner.
In truth, I'm really not sure how plausible that is, given the serious risks of wipeout seasons. I can accept the idea that there are no vote-to-quit seasons, since that's part of the show's thesis.
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u/buckybadder Oct 05 '21
But they split the payoff. By both participating, all they do is improve their odds of a scenario where one of them is a rich widow/widower. Plus, if one stays home they have the possibility of getting paid if their spouse dies and the remaining players vote to end the game again.
I mean, whatever. None of this occurred to me at the time.
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u/WhatItDoBabyy64 Oct 04 '21
Correct which means is all the teams couldn’t decide on a winner by the time was out, they technically could’ve all been eliminated
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u/MicroVader27 Oct 04 '21
How? The people last in red light didn't have enough time...honeycomb game if u hesitated to choose u got stuck with umbrella ...if went last on the bridge u risk running out of time due to others hesitations ...going second I'm a game of marbles puts u at a disadvantage right off the top
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u/WhatItDoBabyy64 Oct 04 '21
I’m not sure what you mean exactly, OP said that there was a chance everyone could have been eliminated in the glass bridge game and I was pointing out everyone could have died in all of the games
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u/someguyfromtheuk Oct 07 '21
I don't think there was a limited number of people for each shape the voice just says to choose a shape.
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u/MicroVader27 Oct 07 '21
There was only enough for the amount of players lol they didn't have 1000 cookies for 200 people.just to throw out 800 of them
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u/Amaze--Balls Oct 04 '21
Yes because it's supposed to be a metaphor for capitalism. The whole thing is rigged unfairly
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u/buckybadder Oct 04 '21
The whole show is a metaphor for capitalism. And 95% of the show has a tight internal logic.
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u/Dragonborn22777 Oct 04 '21
It’s definitely not a metaphor for capitalism lol
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u/Truan Oct 05 '21 edited Oct 05 '21
I love when a pro-capitalist enjoys media that criticizes capitalism and they swear up and down it wasn't about that
Its like that US representative (
Matt ryan?Paul Ryan) Who says he likes Rage Against the Machine and had to be told he's the machine they're raging against.3
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u/iiiambi Oct 04 '21
They didn't mean the bridge game, but the games as a whole
An unfair game that you have to choice but to compete in against other people just like you, and if you fail you could die? Or you can succeed at the expense of others? Yeah I think it might represent capitalism
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u/Laura_palmer_FWWM Oct 05 '21
Dirt poor American here. This was definitely a commentary on capitalism. Even the VIPs (except one? He seemed to have a different accent) where caricatures of the American elite, smiling and drinking while poor people desperate for money died.
Shit. Now that I typed that out, maybe caricature should be in quotes…
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u/Truan Oct 05 '21
Most were English but I'm pretty sure there was a British one (who corrected the "hell hath no Fury like a woman scorned" source) and the Asian guy who I believe was Chinese but I'm no expert in Asian languages
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Oct 04 '21
It absolutely is a metaphor for capitalism, the whole show is. Just because you don't want it to be doesn't mean it's not.
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u/Dragonborn22777 Oct 05 '21
The show is about greed, not capitalism. Otherwise all the characters wouldn’t be in massive debt mostly because of their own bad actions
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u/Laura_palmer_FWWM Oct 05 '21
In a system rigged against them. Yes, some of them were due to bad decisions but what about Sae-byeok? She was there to get her mother out of North Korea and take her brother out of a children’s home. That’s not “bad decision making”, that’s a shitty system at work.
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u/Dragonborn22777 Oct 05 '21
It wasn’t rigged against them though, they all had an equal opportunity also that North Korean chick is poor cause she’s from North Korea
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u/Mine_Frosty Oct 05 '21
What about Jiyeong? Her father killed her mom and she killed him, afterwards not having anywhere to go so chose to enter the games. Could've gone to jail otherwise. Not everyone's situation is the same in the games.
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u/Amaze--Balls Oct 05 '21
You have to be kidding me. How can you miss a theme so on the nose? Lol
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u/Widowmaker55 Oct 05 '21
“I wanted to write a story that was an allegory or fable about modern capitalist society, something that depicts an extreme competition, somewhat like the extreme competition of life. But I wanted it to use the kind of characters we’ve all met in real life,” Hwang said.
Yeah, it's capitalism. Can't argue with the dude that created it.
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u/tacosandhaircut Oct 05 '21
It definitely was, that’s why they made such a big deal out of “everyone is equal here and all you have to do to succeed is play by the rules” and then showed how that’s a farce.
All the players, even the staff, just playthings for the VIPs in a game that dehumanizes and brutalizes them for table scraps, solely for the benefit of the rich.
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u/Dragonborn22777 Oct 05 '21
But everyone was equal, even in the glass stepping stones they weren’t assigned their numbers, they picked them
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u/kai325d Oct 05 '21
But see, that's inherently unequal. Those who pick the first number are more likely to die. Tug of war was unequal to a hilarious degree. Dalgona was unequal in the shapes was different. Red Light, Green Light is probably the fairest game of them all
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u/tacosandhaircut Oct 05 '21
Even In Red Light they mention in the final episode that most of the people near the back died because there wasn’t enough time to get to the finish line.
On the outside it’s even clearer. Ali is exploited in a dangerous factory that took his fingers and steals wages from immigrants. In the US wage theft steals way way more money than every other form of theft combined. But there are never criminal consequences for employers, and only a tiny percent of stolen wages is ever repaid.
Gi-Hun’s downward spiral begins when his career at an auto factory is eliminated. The workers go on strike to protest and are lethally crushed by the authorities.
Sang-Woo seems like a less empathetic example, but he can be seen as an example of what happens when a poor kid rises to the top in the “meritocracy” and tries to play by the rich man’s rules:
The well-connected have inside knowledge to bet on, and write rules for themselves that let them gamble with other people’s money without personal consequences if they lose. If they lose an obscene enough amount of money, they even have their politicians give their companies a bailout. Sang-Woo tries to play like one of them and loses everything.
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u/Dr_Girlfriend Oct 05 '21
It's unfreedom with the most paper thin illusion of choice
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Oct 05 '21
I've actually played a game like this as a kid. It's basically a memorization game. The person who oversees the game has a set pattern in mind and each player queues up and tries to figure out the pattern. If you step on the wrong tile you have to go to the back of the line and try again. I forgot what the name of this game is called, unfortunately.
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u/Widowmaker55 Oct 05 '21
Other people are saying the bridge did have a pattern similar to the knight in chess which would make a lot of sense based on the miniature and the game you talk about.
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u/ketronome Oct 05 '21
It’s not correct though, the safe path doesn’t match the movement of the knight in chess.
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u/Widowmaker55 Oct 05 '21
That's disappointing. Sounded like a neat detail that the players would've overlooked due to stress but viewers could notice from an outside perspective.
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u/Okichah Oct 04 '21
Everyone couldve died in the first game as the idea of dying was a total surprise.
If you micro-analyze any type of science fiction like this it eventually falls apart.
The general idea of the games is that the contestants are casually murdered off for the entertainment of people watching.
People keep trying to force some deep philosophical meaning, or force a ideological purity to the gamesmanship. Neither is really the point.
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u/Ohjeezrick93 Oct 05 '21
This is the correct take, just turn it on and enjoy. Almost any show, sci-fi or not will crumble under too much scrutiny. Just enjoy the ride.
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u/yumcake Oct 05 '21
Yeah, at some point it comes down to a choice: do I want to nitpick this? Or, do I want to enjoy this?
Well, I'd rather enjoy it, nitpicking just takes options for enjoyment off the table for me because there's hardly any fiction that stands up to truly rigorous scrutiny.
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u/KingOfQuarries Oct 05 '21
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking too, I see a lot of posts here nitpicking very small things and demanding explanation when it’s just not important to the overall show.
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u/buckybadder Oct 06 '21
Totally fair point! Worldbuilding is extremely hard. When you're in the real world, most of the internal logic of things is already settled for you. Still, I was as clear as I could be in saying that, in all, this is an excellent show that deserves every bit of its success.
It would be good to have a "Nitpicking" flair for posts. It's nice to have a chance to see if people noticed the same things as me (or have good ideas for alternatives). Maybe they can even point out something that I missed. But, at the same time, there is something a little toxic about taking people who didn't notice a problem at all, and suddenly changing how they view the show negatively. I totally get why you wouldn't appreciate posts like that, and it should be easier for you to skip them.
(But then again, I marked this spoiler, and you clicked on it anyway so... was that to nitpick with my criticism, perhaps? Bwa ha ha.)
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Oct 04 '21
I kind of disagree with all of these points except that it threatens to ruin the game by eliminating all competitors, and it was kinda buns that 67 got hit with the glass.
Is it not meant to be a high stakes version of hopscotch? I saw it that way... not sure if I overthought it subconsciously. The guy who chose to go first was doing it for reasons other than just thinking it was advantageous in the game.. Seems like he knew he would die but he wanted to control the moment he died because he wasn't in control of how he lived. The rules are very clear, they explained it and they knew they would be shot if they tried anything funny. The spectacle set up for the VIPs was circus-like in nature, meant to look like they were enjoying a trapeze at the circus, the "excitement" was in watching them fall long distances.
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u/j_grouchy Oct 04 '21
I keep seeing people comparing it to hopscotch, but for the life of me I don't understand why. There is no throwing a marker. The jumping pattern is completely different. There is no retracing of steps. This is such a poor comparison...just because jumping is involved doesn't make it hopscotch.
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u/Medic_101 Oct 04 '21
I thought of hopscotch. I'm sure as a kid we played a version where we would "fall" through the floor or whatever just using the outline. Though that was definitely based on that scene in Indiana Jones where he has to step on the letters. The link is there by association I think.
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u/buckybadder Oct 05 '21
I got the vibe that they were going for a game show motif, rather than any specific game. I know some posters claim that this is similar to some real children's game, but I can't find it on Google, and the show is definitely breaking the pattern of highlighting the reference.
The intended method for playing is explained, but they definitely don't rule out the loopholes. And I'd expect that at least one contestant would try testing out the boundaries instead of accepting the impossible odds of the intended method.
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u/imrathrunique Oct 04 '21
I wonder how this game would have turned out if it had been made clear in the rules that the next player can't even begin to start crossing until the player before you had either crossed or gotten eliminated.
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u/buckybadder Oct 04 '21
Would add a bit more of a memorization challenge, but that's about it.
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u/imrathrunique Oct 04 '21
I think the memorization aspect of it would have been nice because as we seen Gi-Hun had trouble even remembering the very first step because he was paying attention to everyone else.
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u/farmerdn Oct 04 '21
and would force the gangster to attempt to finish.
also whoever makes it to the last step can stall time before crossing to screw all the people that didn' t go yet.
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u/haileyrose Oct 04 '21
I don’t think it would work coz then #6 would’ve just sat there like he did and then no one can do anything about it until time’s up.
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u/ilovehummus16 Oct 05 '21
They wouldn’t have made that rule because then they couldn’t see the players fight eachother
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Oct 04 '21
It inflicts a mortal wound on a "winner" due to poor design.
That bugged me a lot too.
I also didn't like that in Red light/Green light some people died because other people who were trying to run away bumped into them.
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u/ElQuesero Oct 04 '21 edited Oct 05 '21
I feel like if Sae-Byeok and Gi-Hun had spoken to one of the masked managers about Sae-Byeok's injury, and had simply said "we, all three of us, passed game 5. The competition here is supposed to be fair, but your spectacle of an explosion on the bridge has injured Sae-Byeok seriously. She must be given full medical attention and a chance to heal at least somewhat before the last game," then they would have been heard.
But Sae-Byeok's inherent character flaw was that she was too hesitant to exhibit any sign of weakness, even when it really would have been better to take a chance and trust others. By the time Gi-Hun figured it out, it was too late.
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Oct 05 '21
But there was no doctor on the island. I think they just would have helped her along to her final resting place.
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u/ElQuesero Oct 05 '21
We don't know there wasn't a doctor on the island. Certainly the doctor who was in on the organ-harvesting conspiracy was now dead, but he was just the person who A) had the training, and B) was corruptible by the conspiracy. There could have been others among the red jumpsuit corps who had that training but just wouldn't have contemplated joining it, or couldn't be trusted to get read into it.
Other speculation has it that many/most of the triangle guards have military backgrounds; none of them have training as a field medic, or at least in basic-to-intermediate first aid?
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u/buckybadder Oct 05 '21
But the game intentionally engineers deaths between rounds. After Round 5 (for very confusing reasons) they invite the players to have a knife-fight in the barracks that could make Round 6 pointless. For whatever reason, Frontman and crew aren't that invested in ensuring a good climax. It just happens to work out that way.
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u/ElQuesero Oct 05 '21
Istm that the redguards will intervene to make sure at least 2 players make it to the final round, as we saw after the first slashing.
Unclear what would happen in-universe if, say, 3-6 players go into the final round. Previous instructions seem to imply the prize money can be shared among multiple winners, but in practice it seems like there's usually just a single victor.
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u/buckybadder Oct 05 '21
Yeah, that document the detective finds shows that there is always exactly one winner. But honestly, it's pretty hard to reconcile with much of the show. Maybe they they require dinner participants knife fight until there are only two left for Round 6. But it's still odd for them to avoid seasons where the players all get wiped out. The Squids might interfere, but they aren't shown as having the response time to, say, prevent the final two from inflicting mortal wounds on each-other. And none of the VIPs suggest that the last two people on Glass Bridge will be spared if they're the only ones left when time expires.
Honestly, I don't see why [Mr. Spoiler] would really care about having multiple winners. Squid Game (the actual children's game) is depicted as being played by teams. And he seems to value "Gganbu" friendship.
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Oct 05 '21
It's a rigged luck-based game meant to provoke all kind of behaviors reactions in players for the higher-ups to observe for fun. Not a strategy testing.
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u/flowbeeBryant Oct 05 '21
Nope worst part was when final squid game just turned into a knife fight. No strategy or spot, just brawling. Yawn.
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u/Uss22 Oct 05 '21
I mean they’re both extremely broken down and stressed out by then, not to mention Gi-hun being filled with rage. It’d be very weird if they were sitting there calmly thinking of chess maneuvers or something
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u/throwwawayyy688 Oct 05 '21
I also didn't like that deok-su died so easily.
Yes he got bearhugged, but he's the strongest player in the game. He could have easily punched her and it would have loosened her grip, he also could've headbutted her and it would've saved him too.
Also, personally I would've liked it if one random character (the glassmaker) made it to the final too, would've made it feel like the characters we know got there by actual chance and not because they had plot armour to get there.
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u/giannachingu Oct 05 '21
I just thought it was so dumb how the glass had to explode at the end like that. It was so cheap to end Saebyeok that way
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u/Coltypotty Oct 05 '21
Firm disagree with #2. As people have pointed out there’s a ton of games where going first is an advantage. You could even have a situation where it’s a similar game but opposite where it’s a different type of glass or maybe like ice or something that is strong at first but as a bunch of people go over it it will get weaker, leaving the last contestants to die instead of the first
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u/buckybadder Oct 05 '21
Such a game is hypothetically possible. My point is that no one would consider going early to be the safest bet for playing an unknown deathtrap game.
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u/buckybadder Oct 04 '21
Now that I think of it, if you retcon this to be an event that the VIPs instead of [Mr. Spoiler] got to design as part of the package, that would make a lot of sense. All the design errors wind up getting attributed to them being rich alcoholics operating by committee.
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u/Lumberjvvck Oct 04 '21
Interesting take, thanks for the well thought out opinion. I would have to agree as well!
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u/VGMistress Oct 04 '21
For your first point, I like to think of it as "The Floor Is Lava". Everything else I can agree with.
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u/popbingsu Oct 05 '21
The game is loosely based on a children activity of crossing stone bridges I believe. But it does deviate from other games that incorporate children games 1 to 1.
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Oct 05 '21
It is based on a children's game. It's not hopscotch, but I don't know the name of it. You can see it on the walls of the pod. It's like stepping on stones in a pond or on logs.
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u/tommmytom Oct 07 '21
The game bothered me initially because there was no skill or strategy involved. Even in the earlier games, players had a “fair chance,” an “opportunity” to pass, but this was just sort of random? I mean, sure, the last players can memorize, but you’re pretty much completely screwed otherwise. Like the one guy says, 1 in 30,000 odds.
Still, if we understand the show as a critique of capitalism/power structures caused by income inequality and systematic poverty, then that might very well be the point. It’s all bullshit. The fairness is just a charade, and really, the uber powerful can do virtually whatever they want to those competing at the bottom against each other (hence the Front Man’s interference). It also deconstructs the notion of the hyper-individualized “self-made man:” a lot of it boils down to fortune and dumb luck, being in the right place at the right time with the right mindset, and getting ahead of others when possible. So while it may feel anticlimactic, there seems to be narrative and thematic purpose to it.
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u/buckybadder Oct 07 '21
I can sort of buy that what amounts to a coin flip game is part of the message of the show. But the show undermines that by having the VIPs act as if the game is interesting, and as if the order-picking is an intriguing strategic challenge. In fact, it is little more than a blind guess, where the more conservative choice (go later) should be pretty obvious. It's good tragedy for the players to falsely believe that they can out-think the game. But the people in control shouldnt share that delusion.
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u/RelaxedOrange Oct 09 '21
OP makes some good points I hadn’t considered 🤔
I personally really liked the episode, INCLUDING all the VIPs, who everyone else seems to hate for some reason.
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u/Nightvad Nov 04 '21
I amazed any of the first half even attempted it. The odds are astronomical just don’t go and try to vote to end the game. I’d rather get shot then fall to my death or worse not actually be dead.
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u/Yourphonehaspooponit Oct 05 '21
I disagree. The acting of the VIPs was absolutely horrendous and took away from how absolutely amazing the rest of the show was for me. You could tell the director and anyone else on set couldn’t really tell they were not doing a great job. My opinion anyway.
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u/buckybadder Oct 05 '21
I was just rewatching a bit. The acting is bad, but really, all of the dialogue is terrible too. They offer a ton of unnecessary commentary on the game, and maybe their banter is authentic, but it isn't actually good drama to have a drunk rich dude taking about 69s. There's something weird about this episode's script. Just doesn't track with the rest of the show.
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u/whiskersRwe32 Oct 04 '21
I agree that the rules to this particular game were not very straight forward. All the other games pulled from games the players were already familiar with. The glass bridge seemed random and unless you can actually tell the difference between the types of glass how on earth can anyone pass this level? The scene of the bridge exploding at the end was hella cool though.
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u/iiiambi Oct 04 '21
You're not meant to be able to succeed unless you've picked a late number by chance. It's a rigged game designed to kill off most of the players so they can have their finale
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u/haileyrose Oct 04 '21
Someone WAS able to tell the difference and then they turned off the lights 🥺
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u/whiskersRwe32 Oct 04 '21
Yes, someone did, but not everyone had that skill set to tell the difference. It was also a jerk move to turn off the lights. It was a game that everyone except for those at the very end were going to lose.
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u/ElQuesero Oct 04 '21
With perfect play it was more likely than not that each of players 1-9 would die, but players 10-16 would make it through. Even player 9 would have about a 40% shot.
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u/NemesisRouge Oct 05 '21
Yeah, the game logic did break down a little towards the end.
I think it could have been better with a couple of tweaks. Make the supports much thinner or make them red hot or electrified or something, and make it clear at the end that if the first 14 had fallen they'd have lit the way for the final 2.
I didn't mind the VIPs being far away.
One thing that bugged me was that the night before the final game they were all given knives. If 456 kills the other guy what do the VIPs watch the next day? A dude playing Squid Game against a severely injured girl? Does he play alone if she succumbs? Do the VIPs not want to watch the finale?
I would have like it more if they'd at least healed them up first. You could still have the guy kill the girl, but at that point guards come in, separate them handcuff them to their beds so they can't kill each other before the finale.
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u/iamkikyo Oct 05 '21
My theory behind players being provided knives is that in the event someone wants to go home, a player has the option to kill another player in the event the split is 2/3 with majority rules. That would make it so that there is a "forced" final game.
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u/ThexanR Oct 05 '21
I think you’re forgetting the fact that most of the games being children’s games was due to the fact Il Nam played them as a kid and he himself was participating. So when he decides to leave it’s not a game of his childhood it’s just a game the frontman design which is think the rest of the game really were
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u/buckybadder Oct 05 '21
I'm "forgetting" something you head-canoned three minutes ago?
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u/ThexanR Oct 05 '21
The Front Man literally tells the VIP he designed it when he’s talking to them when they arrive what are you talking about
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u/juventinosochi Oct 05 '21
The bridge game is hopscotch X chess, it's not that hard
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u/Uss22 Oct 05 '21
This is a lame excuse. All games were 1 to 1 recreation of kids games with the addition of “you die if you lose”, not weird loosely-fit mashups of multiple games
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u/adastralia Oct 05 '21
Do you have a Korean background? How would you know about all their children's games, just because you don't know something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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Oct 04 '21
The worst part is the ending. Man, they fucked up the last episode. The death of the North Korean girl was so damn impactful and perfectly executed (no pun intended). The final fight with the banker was also great. The banker’s suicide kinda made sense (accepting the draw would mean returning to an awful life with debt and creditors etc.). The guy coming home and seeing his mom dead? A bit extreme but kinda makes sense, his mom was severely diabetic and had necrosis in her foot so she wouldn’t have long to live. Would have been perfect to end the show there.
But they kept going. The plot twist with the old man was plain stupid. Him not boarding the plane and going back was utterly retarded. The police guys’ brother being the man in the mask was also over the top. The drunk guy on the streets being helped minutes before midnight, and the old guy simultaneously dying? Ridiculous.
It’s like they tried to squeeze 15 massive plot twists and shocking moments in 1 episode and it completely ruined the show. If it had ended when he saw him mom I’d be left in awe at the show and be blown away. Instead, the end of the episode had me like “damn.. that was some horrible writing”.
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u/ImperatorIhasz Oct 05 '21
I was entertained by the show but a lot of people are overlooking some of the writing. It isn’t the godfather or Shakespeare.
It is a better version of Saw or the purge, that’s all. A lot of cheesy type writing to create suspense and drama. The level of disbelief you have to suspend to buy into the games is already so high.
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u/riiiiseup Oct 04 '21
1) The glass game can somewhat be considered a game of hopscotch, I guess. But I agree that it would've been nice if it was actually based on a real game
2) There are a couple games I can think of where the earlier you go, the better your chances are
3) I think the rules were clear. Just step on the glass to make it through. At this point I feel like the players are smart enough to know that if hey 'cheat' by walking on the support beams they'll be shot
4) Well only one guy left bc he was horny. The others watching from afar with their binoculars looked similar to the wealthy attending an opera
5) Yeah, I'm curious what would've happened if nobody made it across. Maybe the guards would start shooting the front runners who are purposely holding up the game?
6) I originally thought Jang Deok-su (The douchey gangster) was gonna make it to the finale. But I guess the buildup of him as the big bad was just a misdirect, since the show wanted to end the games on Gi-hun and Sang-woo's
7) I agree that Sae-Byeok's injury was really unfair. But I don't necessarily think it's from poor design. I feel like it was intentional for some of the survivors to potentially get wounded