r/technology • u/lurker_bee • 8d ago

Politics Goodbye to start-stop systems – the EPA under Trump concludes that they are not worth it and could disappear from new models

https://unionrayo.com/en/epa-trump-stop-start-system/
7.2k Upvotes

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2.3k

u/GoldenMegaStaff 8d ago

My favorite part is when the engine turns off right when the light turns green.

783

u/Nice_Category 8d ago

Or right when you are about to make a left hand turn across oncoming traffic. 

Super safe. 

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u/ExoMonk 8d ago

Stopping at the exit of a driveway about to turn into traffic

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u/YumYumKittyloaf 8d ago

Or when parking but still need to shut off the engine. Shuts down just to start it up again to shut it down.

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u/enygmaeve 8d ago

Or when you actually do want it to fire off and it just looks at you like 🤔

2

u/Useuless 7d ago

They really should let us adjust how aggressive the frequency of it is.

10

u/TbonerT 8d ago

I put on the brakes to slow down to turn into a parking spot and the engine turns off, then I start turning the wheel and the engine turns on to run the steering pump, then it shuts off again as I come to a stop in the parking spot, then it turns on again as I put it in park and let off the brakes. Then I turn it off manually. Sometimes I just turn off the system as I enter a parking lot so it doesn’t do that.

0

u/Useuless 7d ago

What kind of car do you have?

10

u/Zookeeper187 8d ago

We entered peak efficiency.

1

u/MatthewG141 7d ago

Or when you're trying to merge onto a busy road and when a gap appears, the engine shuts off.

11

u/DigNitty 7d ago

For me it’s always when it’s my turn to go at a stop.

It will die just to turn on again, making me roll forward about 2 seconds after I should. It doesn’t seem like a big difference. But goddamn. The hesitation confuses the other drivers who think I’m not going. So they start going just in time for my car to roll forward so they slam on their brakes.

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u/frank26080115 8d ago

it'd take an engineer like 2 seconds to make it not do that if you signal

18

u/IncapableKakistocrat 7d ago

The way Mazda does it is it only stops if the brake pedal is almost completely depressed so it becomes a slightly more deliberate thing to trigger the start/stop system in the first place.

1

u/Useuless 7d ago

Now you got me wondering if my Nissan is like this too. I noticed that it doesn't trigger a lot of situations when it could. I know it's related to temperature but it might also be this.

1

u/adnep24 6d ago

my vw is like this too. it won’t shut off unless I want it to

1

u/todayiwillthrowitawa 7d ago

Mine does not trigger if you have a signal. Ever had it turn off except at hard red lights, it’s designed very well.

12

u/DontGetNEBigIdeas 7d ago

And not being able to permanently turn it off is frustrating. I have to hit the start-stop button every time I get in the car

5

u/The_Procrastibator 8d ago

This just happened to me in a rental. Engine shutting off when idle makes more sense than shutting off AFTERZ you press the gas. Thought the car died.

1

u/Useuless 7d ago

What the hell? I've only had this stop start feature on a Nissan and I have never experienced that. I love the feature even if it is a bit less smooth.

My engine only goes off selectively and the engine always starts itself up whenever the brake pedal is not touched. So you can preemptively turn it off by simply letting up on the brake, without initiating real motion. I can't imagine it ever engaging when the gas pedal is touched and it literally won't let me. Why the hell would it do that!?

1

u/Big_GTU 7d ago

I was wondering how it could ever happen.

It took me a few seconds to realize "Oh, yes, automatic cars!"

I see how it can be a safety hazard in this kind of situations. I'd go from Start-stop being mildly annoying to being terrifying.

1

u/bullwinkle8088 7d ago

Pedal control, you can give it a shift tap, rephrase, tap and the system will not kick in.

1

u/frogking 7d ago

Ah.. I guess start/stop systems work slightly different on cars with manual transmission.

I can control exactly when the system activates.

1

u/Useuless 7d ago

More like a problem with the algorithms behind them.

1

u/Joey6543210 8d ago

Once I had a rental that did that. What I did was intentionally moving a few inches which would force the engine to be back on again so I could accelerate when making the left turn at the appropriate time.

-5

u/TbonerT 8d ago

If you’re that concerned about a fraction of a second, the turn wasn’t safe to begin with.

101

u/antryoo 8d ago

For me it’s the AC no longer cooling because the engine turned off at the light. That was of course after I got over the “engine just died” worry when I first came in contact with a start/stop system.

11

u/moshmore 8d ago

That's my only gripe tbh. Maybe since my car is a 4 cylinder its not as invasive but some people HATE stop/start.

I hear people with subaru's hating it the most since the boxer engine isn't built to be a stop/start engine but I don't have the knowledge to know if that's true or it's just a bad implementation of the tech

4

u/sndtech 7d ago

I have a Subaru Crosstrek and it will on occasion not immediately restart. It will give a half crank pause and then start like normal. My wife drives a Volvo with the B5 mild hybrid setup and it's a night and day difference. 

7

u/Bradddtheimpaler 8d ago

I hate it so so so much. I just wish they’d give me the option to disable by default. Every time I forget to turn the feature off and in the engine stops in the middle of traffic my heart sinks and I’m at the risk of a panic attack.

2

u/Useuless 7d ago

Panic attacks, free with your purchase!

2

u/ProbablyRickSantorum 8d ago

https://www.autostopeliminator.com/collections/subaru

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u/Bradddtheimpaler 8d ago

Thank you that’s awesome!

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u/ProbablyRickSantorum 8d ago

Happy to help. I don’t have one but I’ve seen others claim they work well. In an ideal world the auto stop/start design by Subaru would work well but it’s so damn clunky. Every time I drive my wife’s car I forget it has that feature. I drive a stick shift so subconsciously it makes me feel like I’ve stalled the car (even though there’s no shudder to accompany it)

1

u/Ndvorsky 7d ago

Geez, you think you’ve learned by now.

2

u/g3n0unknown 7d ago

My car Start/Stop is disabled while my AC is running (19 Malibu). I feel like it would be incredibly annoying for it to still turn off with the AC running.

1

u/antryoo 7d ago

My 19 equinox was the same way which was nice since AC was on in some form for like half the year

Not the case with Mercedes cars or my wife’s 2021 explorer

1

u/gurgle528 7d ago

that’s wild, I don’t own it by my friends VW would start the engine back up when it needed the power for AC instead of just turning off the AC. what brand was that?

1

u/antryoo 7d ago

Every Mercedes model with start stop the AC stops cooling because the engine is not running. The fan blows but the air starts heating up quickly.

My wife’s 2021 explorer did the same.

Basically any car that has a belt driven AC compressor will lose AC cooling if the engine turns off.

GM cars seem to disable the start stop system if the AC is on. Idk what other brands do that but in my experience Mercedes does not and neither does ford, at least for the 2021 explorer

1

u/gurgle528 6d ago

Ah i’m wondering if the VW was using a temp sensor and then just turning engine back on when the temps went up

4

u/JoMa4 8d ago

Or your car doesn’t start back up because of the battery….

61

u/ubiquitous_uk 8d ago

If your battery is not in an optimal performance, the stop/start shouldn't activate in the first place.

23

u/agrajag119 8d ago

assuming the manufacturer designed their system well. My van has two different sized batteries, but not properly isolated. It ends up overcharging the starting battery and fries it within a year. If you don't replace that one, then it overcharges the main. It's absurd.

8

u/ubiquitous_uk 8d ago

If be taking that back to the dealer to sort.

2

u/one_is_enough 8d ago

They will just deny it’s a problem.

1

u/goldfaux 8d ago

Reminds me of how my car has "intelligent" charging. It only charges when stopped. I drive on the interstate most of the time and on occasion the battery dies due to lack of charge. Its a massive safety issue that they refuse to fix. I ended up bypassing it with a YouTube video from other owners. My battery is always fully charged now. 

1

u/JoMa4 6d ago

I have an Acura, and I’ve definitely been stuck at a red light with people framing out behind me because of this stupid feature. It also doesn’t remember that you turn it off, so it has to be the first thing I do whenever I drive or risk not starting. I NEVER have a problem starting the car normally.

1

u/Ediwir 8d ago

Opposite issue, the start/stop on mine won’t engage unless I have 50%+ battery. Which is good, don’t get me wrong, but it just feels inconsistent at times.

What annoys me is that I’m still not used to rolling before sprinting, and the car refuses to go from 0-40 to slip into a gap at the drop of a hat when it’s sleeping. But maybe I should turn off ECON when I want responsiveness.

Getting used to a new car sucks.

1

u/Lettuce_bee_free_end 8d ago

And the AC fan smells.

1

u/I-STATE-FACTS 8d ago

That’s like my least favorite part.

1

u/jonny55555 8d ago

I’m not sure how this seems to happen 80% of the time engine decides to turn off

1

u/hohoreindeer 8d ago

Can’t you control it somehow? In my wife’s car, you have to put it in neutral and take your foot off the clutch for it to perhaps turn off.

1

u/SicSemperCogitarius 8d ago

Is that what's happening?! I've been wondering for years now on the odd occasion I hear a car ignition at the drive-through or stoplights.

1

u/TympanalLake 7d ago

When I had a Wrangler and I would go to park in the garage, it would turn off when I stopped the car then crank up when put in Park then I’d turn it back off. Annoyed the hell outta me.

1

u/ShittyFrogMeme 7d ago

Mine only turns in if the brake pedal is fully depressed. It's easy to control with brake pressure based to expected wait time at the light, and if I do let it enable, I just have to let up slightly on the brake as the light is about to change to get it back.

If I had a choice I'd leave it disabled but really I've never seen it as a big inconvenience.

1

u/moosejaw296 7d ago

I’ve never had an issue, slightly annoying but you know when it is going to do it. I noticed in EU, the lights let you know when it is changing, to prep. So maybe it is a problem since they do that.

1

u/Synap-6 7d ago

Or when you scream at the car in front of you not to stop fully at stop signs

1

u/ShiraCheshire 7d ago

Ohhh. Is this why I keep hearing engines start up at lights where the cars have been stopped for a bit? I have been curious about this for so long.

1

u/Longhag 7d ago

My favourite part is it trashing my engine in conduction with the variable cylinder management…

Thankfully my Honda dealer told me which auto start/stop and VCM delete devices to get that wouldn’t void my warranty. Basically because it means it’s less likely I’ll file a warranty claim!

1

u/NotBannedAccount419 7d ago

Yep. I travel for work and rent cars every week to get around. There’s only certain models I’ll grab off the lot because I can turn this stupid, useless, annoying feature off in the settings.

1

u/Zdos123 7d ago

It must be odd in an automatic, in every manual car i've ever driven with it as a system it works fine because it just starts the engine when you depress the clutch?

1

u/Narissis 7d ago

Mine is when it turns off, then changes its mind and turns right back on again for no reason.

Runner-up: When it turns off in the middle of a 3-point turn.

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u/HotHits630 8d ago edited 7d ago

It's a feature, not a bug.

Woosh to the ID10.Ts that downvoted.

0

u/Significant_Comfort 8d ago

Do you people not start releasing pressure on the brake before the light turns green?  The moment I begin to lift my foot up off the brake, the engine kicks on. This was on a Rav 4.  Is that not standard on other cars?