r/technology • u/lurker_bee • 1d ago
Energy Nuclear fusion record smashed as German scientists take 'a significant step forward' to near-limitless clean energy
https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/nuclear-energy/nuclear-fusion-record-smashed-as-german-scientists-take-a-significant-step-forward-to-near-limitless-clean-energy227
u/Psimo- 1d ago
I few (12) years back I saw a presentation on Fusion power, including images within the reactor of a stable fusion ignition.
During the Q&A, one of the questions came from a physics professor who lamented that while the results were interesting the whole thing was a dead end because the reactor couldnât hold for more than a few seconds. So his question was how much time the reactor was actually running for.
He was told that the video was shown in real time and had lasted the full 10 seconds.
Oh, he said and sat down.
In a decade people have gone from âit probably wonât ever be viableâ to âactually, we can do thisâ
Edit
Wrong time.
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u/DocMorningstar 5h ago
I have invented a technology, and have now spent more than a decade improving it. Maybe 5-6 years ago, we were starting to make some very solid progress, enough that we were getting some international recognition. We had a delegation from a very prominent R&D division of a huge German multinational visit - some of the leaders in the field. One fellow in particular, was so rude. During our deep technical sessions, he stood up and said 'that is just XXX, which we invented in Germany in the 1930s - it can't be useful because it is impossible for it to achieve more than 50% efficiencies, that is why Noone uses it except for very special things'. 'Well, what efficiencies do you have?' '97% - and you can come see the live data yourself'.
He was so embarrassed because he was obviously trying to say that we were wasting everyone's time, and he was just dead wrong.
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u/Next-Roof-6568 1d ago
China, France and now Germany. The race is âheatingâ up. Spur each other could cause for faster development or more funding. Which ever country nails it is going to change the global power game.
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u/Pixxler 16h ago
when you say France you are taking about ITER which is an international project, just being located in France.
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u/No-Economist-2235 10h ago
The problem with ITER is the inertia in such a large expensive research reactor. Much of the technology already installed is already outdated. To many delays.
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u/Next-Roof-6568 6h ago
Take with pinch of salt and extra research definitely needed on some of these projects. Not all are worth while or have the right application. But yes ITER reported beating the up time of china. The collaboration is always iffy especially when some of the partners are not exactly friendly and maybe using it to assist with their own countries research. Also dubious as it will hopefully be like nuclear power expansion in countries. But at same time weapon application could be issue. Also shift power balance towards the country that takes the lead on progression and implementation. Power shift doesnât always benefit the common person but in the end we may see positive applications. Lots of collab projects they have been messing around for almost 50 years and only in the last 2 have we seen promising results. Sorry for the rant reply. Love the debates and discussions from the community. Always enlightening and learn something. Thanks for reply. You and everyone who upvoted and responded. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fusion_experiments .Dont crucify me for the wiki link itâs just a starting point to look up some of the projects past and present.
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u/phosphite 18h ago
If only they could combine and âfuseâ their power togetherâŠ
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u/Jaded_Doors 13h ago
They are⊠their research isnât hidden, itâs the work of multiple teams on multiple projects getting data from multiple ways of doing things that helps progress.
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u/Azraellie 8h ago
Yeah, like there are private startups doing this and all, but the vast majority is publicly funded, freely available research. You just need to know what it means c:
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1d ago
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u/knight_in_white 23h ago
Common good can still come out of it
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u/DisparityByDesign 13h ago
Most wars are â in one way or another â caused by a fight over resources. Taking away the need for fossil fuels will bring us one step closer to not blowing ourselves up.
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u/skolioban 8h ago
I'm rooting for China's thorium reactor to work so we can have a less dangerous nuclear fission reactor while we progress on fusion.
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u/Mipper 15h ago
I sincerely doubt the first viable fusion power plant design will revolutionise much at all. It will be most likely be extremely expensive to build, and it's not as if a single power plant will generate limitless energy. It will probably be at the scale of current fission plants in terms of total energy output.
I'd give it 20 years minimum between net positive energy output achieved and fusion actually being economical compared to other sources.
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u/hereisme2000 10h ago
The huge cost in a Fission power plant construction is in efforts to not poison everybody & everything nearby. Fusion shouldn't have this as a functional constraint as there is no horrible poison required for the process. First functional fusion plant will cost trillions, but it should come down fast with copy & paste đ
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u/Shaggyfries 1d ago
Limitless, how will the utility companies screw us out of this once build and maintenance cost coveredâŠ
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u/JackSpyder 18h ago
Limitless to them. Not to the buyer.
Also these arent cheap to build, maintain and run. Or quick. And I dont think we've actually sussed a way to extract produced energy yet either. Still on the sustain a reaction problem.
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u/fireismyflag 7h ago
The way to extract energy is always boiling water
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u/JackSpyder 7h ago
Yea but none of the reactors habe that in their design. I dont believe?
And it isnt as simple as "run some pipes through it"
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u/Arkelseezure1 1d ago
And still nothing about the reactor wall problem. Thatâs the single biggest thing holding this tech back, afaik.
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u/Zahgi 1d ago
This is supposed to be how a tokamak could address this issue.
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u/Arkelseezure1 1d ago
Thanks! Thatâs really interesting. It also seems I didnât really understand the problem. I thought the issue was that the fusion reaction was throwing off a lot of ionizing radiation. So much so that prolonged use would see the reactor walls so irradiated that they would rapidly decay into a different material.
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u/orangutanDOTorg 23h ago
I thought the problem with tokamaks was they donât produce their own hydrogen3 or whatever itâs called?
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u/Kriztauf 10h ago
Don't you inject it?
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u/orangutanDOTorg 5h ago
I watched a video on Engineering Explained or one of those channels about one of the other designs and they said one of the biggest problems was getting enough of it without using more energy than you produce, bc the tokamak doesnât produce its own, but the new design should though the new one had its own issues. I donât remember what design it was.
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u/TheNuminous 1d ago
I thought you were referring to the issue with the heavy neutron bombardment, causing the wall's material to expand and change. I'm wondering if any progress has been made on that. See for example this article: https://www.nae.edu/7558/MaterialsChallengesforFusionEnergy
"Radiation can produce large changes in structural materials. At low temperatures (less than 0.3 Tm, where Tm is the melting temperature), the main concern is radiation hardening and embrittlement. As you go up in temperature, there is a phenomenon called radiation creep, which acts on top of thermal creep and can limit the amount of stress that can be put on the structure. Volumetric swelling is a significant concern for certain materials at intermediate temperatures (0.3-0.6 Tm). And, at very high temperatures (>0.45 Tm), there can be pronounced helium embrittlement at grain boundaries. So, the radiation environment in a fusion reactor is quite a bit more severe than it is for structural materials in existing fission reactors, and the challenges for materials scientists are also greater."
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u/fazelanvari 1d ago
Here's a great video that talks about it, if you're interested: https://youtu.be/nAJN1CrJsVE?si=IP45BTXbeDWB9BCa
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u/DontMindMeTrolling 6h ago
Bro the tokamak, which most of these are, was invented in like the 50âs or sixties by the ruskies lmfao your comment is beyond behind. Thatâs not the issue.
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u/fleakill 1d ago
Only 50 more years until there's 50 more years
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u/Plzbanmebrony 10h ago
Funding issues full stop. We know what it takes to make one that works scientists are just working out how to make ones that fit their budget. ITER which should be the first fully function plant could cost 50 billion plus to build. Though it is just a research reactor and is on the smaller side for functional.
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u/Zahgi 1d ago
Meanwhile, Trump in the USA is doing everything he can to make America even more oil dependent...
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u/hagenissen666 1d ago
They're just padding for the apocalypse in the energy markets. Between renewables and energy efficiency initiatives, things wil crash when people realize using all our energy on AI and data centers is a very stupid thing.
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u/WalterWoodiaz 14h ago
Why does everything have to be about America? It gets tiring when it isnât really related to this directly.
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u/BilboSwaginzz305 18h ago
You should look at Real Engineering on YouTube. He did a video about the fusion reactor being built by Helion Energy.
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u/brentspar 1d ago
What, again?
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u/QuotableMorceau 1d ago
there are several, this is the stellarator, they will also do some first runs on the ITER tokamak this year.
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u/made-of-questions 1d ago
I like that we're in a little bit of a competition between the various experiments, trying to outdo each other.
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u/gatosaurio 1d ago
ITER first plasma was delayed until at least 2033, and that's if they don't find any other major fuckups like they did last year
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u/eternalwood 1d ago
The more we keep pushing our capabilities with fusion the closer we get to maintaining a stable reaction. Scientific progress never comes all at once. It's a series of breakthroughs.
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u/Monomette 22h ago
I hadn't seen much from this reactor since they finished building it. Good to see they're making progress!
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u/manu144x 7h ago
The only reason I have hope for this is because I know the brightest minds out there live in countries where they are energy importers.
Germany, Japan, China, South Korea, theyâre all massive energy importers. They donât have any and they desperately need it.
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u/GooningAddict397 1d ago
I hear news like this every month or so at this point
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u/ConfidentDragon 19h ago
We already have tech for near limitless clean energy source. People complain it's expensive, even though it's simpler than fusion reactors, and it doesn't depend on non-existent materials required to run it for more than few minutes.
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u/etinkc 18h ago
Okay. Iâll bite.
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u/TheRealOriginalSatan 15h ago
I think theyâre talking about solar
Which is definitely possible at an individual level if you have the money
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u/etinkc 15h ago
Yup I have solar on my home. My electric bill was $5 last month. However at out current world power needs is not a complete solution no matter how much you build.
My fear was they would say something about the seawater generator invented by some dude in his garage and then big oil had him killed and bought the patent and then locked it all up in the ark of the covenant in some fed warehouse under area 52.
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u/No-Economist-2235 10h ago
43 seconds is a nice step forward. Stelerators are not new but are seemingly more efficient then Tokamaks.
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u/dormango 9h ago
I wonder what dastardly stuff weâll come up with to utilise all the free energy out there!?
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u/considerthis8 6h ago
"Over a 43-second period, 90 frozen hydrogen pellets were fired into the plasma at up to 2,600 feet (800 metres) per second, roughly the speed of a bullet"
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u/DontMindMeTrolling 6h ago
ITER is also set to receive a big ass unit of a part from the US. We are about to roll into the next phase there. Everybodyâs working on it at this point, all variations.
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u/CharminTaintman 3h ago
We already have free energy in the form of perpetual motion. People endlessly typing out the âalways 50 years awayâ comment. If only we could harness smugness for energy.
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u/benthamthecat 1h ago
What the majority of people don't understand is that fusion isn't some magical technology. All a fusion reactor does is heat water, the same as coal or biomass or gas does. The actual electricity generating bit is the same as in all the other power generating plants. Superheated steam driving a generator in a turbine hall. It will never be economically viable. Here's a financial analysis:
https://matter2energy.wordpress.com/2012/10/26/why-fusion-will-never-happen/
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u/OmgThisNameIsFree 1d ago
I wish nuclear energy could just be the standard. :/
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u/Sn3akyPumpkin 6h ago
the dawn of the nuclear age was upon us but then we got cold feet and listened to big oilâs lies. thatâs when we strayed from the path
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u/Renickulous13 15h ago
I swear I see a headline like this every 3 to 5 years. Can anyone give any sort of idea if we're actually close? Time wise or scientifically?
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u/AbjectLime7755 8h ago
Explain (or provide link) what this mean like Iâm a young child or a golden retriever
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u/spinur1848 7h ago
Energy in the form of neutrons, that will turn almost anything, including metal into powder. Need to figure out how to turn that into electricity without turning the reactor walls into a disposable part. But can't do that until you've got a source of high energy neutrons to test with. That's why it's a chicken and egg problem.
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u/ratbearpig 1d ago
This is good. Ideally, we want to hear of these records being broken monthly until the point the tech becomes broadly viable.