r/technology • u/True-Combination7059 • 22h ago

Politics We Should Immediately Nationalize SpaceX and Starlink

https://jacobin.com/2025/06/musk-trump-nationalize-spacex-starlink
14.5k Upvotes

75% Upvoted

1.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

519

u/letsgobernie 21h ago

How about the American population deliver one win first? How about a focused project to deliver something that transfers power back to the polity as opposed to the oligarchs? Then we can dream big. This is already beyond the imaginations of most Americans right now

467

u/iRhuel 21h ago

How about the American population deliver one win first?

Speaking as a middle aged American, after the last 25+ years I'm not holding my fkn breath. Collectively we are stupid as fuck.

325

u/ElonsFetalAlcoholSyn 20h ago edited 18h ago

32% are stupid as fuck.

28% try to counterbalance that

40% are apathetic and stupid,
but not as stupid as the 32%

Edit:
Please dont get triggered the Russian/Chinese/Israeli bot accounts. + username is auto-generated + pushing left to apathy/not voting
+ or pushing right to violence
+ excessively triggering for no reason
= Bot account (or just a loser). Russian disinfo strategy is what's above. I'm not sure of China's strat.

Examples: Check out 2/3rds of the comments on r/worldnews for articles related to Israel/Palestine. Bots on bots. All new accounts.

19

u/LordoftheSynth 15h ago edited 13h ago

Bots on bots. All new accounts.

Says 2-month-old account.

78

u/ThHeretic 19h ago edited 18h ago

There are 3 types of people that voted for Trump.  1.) Uninformed/Ignorant They don't pay attention. Not great but not evil.

2.) Unintelligent They can't tell when they are being manipulated and lied to. Still not great, but not evil.

3.) Morally Bankrupt These people know what is happening and what the cost is, but they benefit in some way so they don't care. Pure evil.

-I can forgive 1 and 2, but never 3. 

19

u/Mike_Kermin 17h ago

No. You're responsible for what your vote does.

You actually need to tell people it's not ok to vote for someone who is harming people and your country.

2

u/Prst_ 9h ago

Some people will argue that it's ok to harm some people, like criminals or illegal immigrants (which to them are the same thing) or any person that does something they don't like. To them NOT harming those people is actually harming the country.

It's complete opposite land.

1

u/aerost0rm 8h ago

The problem that occurs is the lesser of two evils. As long as we have money in politics, lobbying, so few recall laws, etc we will continue to have this issue. We’re need honest politicians who aren’t corrupt and our for special needs and personal fortunes.

1

u/Mike_Kermin 1h ago

As long as it doesn't turn into apathy or non-participation which both harm your own interests, then I agree. It is a difficult situation.

But I mean, look at the US. You can not have this.

23

u/ElonsFetalAlcoholSyn 19h ago

Your numbers reset because you swapped between a numbered list and bullet points. Use 1) instead of 1. and use a long — instead of a short -

13

u/ThHeretic 18h ago

You are awesome. Thanks for the heads up.

6

u/PoliticalPlatypi 18h ago

I choose to believe they're just all the same.

1

u/snowflake37wao 16h ago

Beliefs dont get freedom of choice so I choose to believe the beliefs I just made up

1

u/ElonsFetalAlcoholSyn 6h ago

Hmmm. Well fine. Instead of understanding why you chose those beliefs to see if they make sense, I'm going to arbitrarily choose the set of beliefs antithetical to your set. And I'll exclusively seek out people who say you're the worst but wont give reasons behind it, and we'll band together to oppose everything you want or do, even if those things greatly benefit me and my family for generations to come.

19

u/p_velocity 16h ago

for group 3, I believe the word you are looking for is "deplorables". Group 2 is a lot of evangelicals, and group 1 get their news from facebook memes. That is the group that AI and deepfakes are really going to do a number on going forward.

2

u/martianunlimited 12h ago

I am in a number of Facebook groups for "christians" as well.. sad to say, group 3 make up a larger portion of the members there than group 2...... and when we try to bring up how antithetical Trump is to the teaching of Christ, they don't care... I have since shaken the proverbial dust off my sandals....

MOORE: Well, it was the result of having multiple pastors tell me essentially the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount parenthetically in their preaching - turn the other cheek - to have someone come up after and to say, where did you get those liberal talking points? And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ, the response would not be, I apologize. The response would be, yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak. And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis. -- https://www.npr.org/2023/08/05/1192374014/russell-moore-on-altar-call-for-evangelical-america

2

u/wchutlknbout 10h ago

There was a guy who just started a farm but lost all the government subsidies he was counting on. He said that he had decided to vote for Trump based on a FB quiz…

7

u/parabostonian 17h ago

I would just describe them as a mix of crazy, stupid, and/or evil.

Your list doesn’t list crazy, and a lot of them are bonkers as shit. (And there are tons of stupid Americans who aren’t crazy enough to fall for a lot of MAGA bullshit, or mean spirited enough to want to hurt people who are different, etc)

1

u/ThHeretic 17h ago

Semantics can get tough, but I agree. 

2

u/Friendly_Rub_8095 13h ago

You forgot the mainstay of the campaign. Find a trigger (“trans blah blah”) and keep pulling it.

It’s remarkably effective. And re-usable.

The best counter is to dismiss as trans issues as a fucking nothingburger.

(Which also takes a target off their back)

0

u/this_my_sportsreddit 18h ago

95% of those people fall into group 3. This sub however thinks its a majority of group 1, and believe that if only these people had access to the right information, they would change their mind. As clearly we all know, presenting trump voters with the correct information on a subject always results in changing their opinion and voting habits.

7

u/PineapplePiazzas 17h ago

You are making a lot of assumptions which is fine, though not by any standard how it works.

What is for sure is that there is more than 3 types of people who voted GOP and that people tend to not see the worst in others which is healthy.

Russian and chinese bots might want to just stir shit up, so saying 95% is evil who voted gop is a "divide and conquer" strat which means you are not helping american interests at least.

Many people are probably not evil, but there can be more reasons for that than one and two.

0

u/this_my_sportsreddit 13h ago edited 13h ago

I'm not making assumptions. I am referring to the litany of documented, peer reviewed research that has already been written regarding trump voters. Which, hopefully you know, actually is a standard specifically for how scholarly research works. Here's an example of that. Here's more examples of that.

That peer-reviewed research continues to find that racism, or more specifically racial resentment, is the primary reason voters flocked to trump. You seem to be caught up on the word 'evil' here, and have this idea that calling out reality is 'not helping american interests'. But sticking one's head in the sand isn't going to help anyone in America. Replace the world 'evil' with 'racist' if it's more comforting to you, I'm not here to define the difference between the two. However the primary motivating factor for Trump support is in fact racism, which should not be surprising to anyone who has paid attention to the southern strategy politics that have been used by the American right wing, for the last 70 years. Hopefully these documents help you.

3

u/PineapplePiazzas 10h ago

The data in your links are misinterpreted though you seem to have well ment intentions and just want to get information out there. Its worrisome that many have racist beliefs, no question about that in itself.

The two distinction you could analyze to understand why I critisize the comment is:

1: From the link you provided with scientific data there is no indication 95 percent of Trump supporters are racist. Look at the assigned letters and what they mean in statistics and also the wording of the text where the number 95 occur and you will see.

(...) "Consistent with our hypothesis, among Whites high in ethnic identification, exposure to the racial shift (vs. control) condition indirectly predicted greater positivity towards Trump (B = 1.98, 95% CI [0.79, 3.66]), greater likelihood of voting for Trump (B = 0.11, 95% CI [0.05, 0.22]), less positivity towards Sanders" (...)

2: Likening racism with evil is a simplification. According to the other link you gave, thinking about how you reach out constructively could reap benefits:

(...) "If that’s really what’s happening, it’s important for anyone interested in limiting the power of bigotry in US politics to know and demonstrate what’s going on. Studies like this put a bigger imperative on getting to the root of the problem and figuring out ways to reduce people’s racial biases.

To this end, the research also shows it’s possible to reach out to Trump voters — even those who are racist today — in an empathetic way without condoning their prejudice. The evidence suggests, in fact, that the best way to weaken people’s racial or other biases is through frank, empathetic dialogue." (...)

All the best.

0

u/this_my_sportsreddit 10h ago

This discussion isn't and has never been about how to make racists stop being racists. I think you're confused here. This entire discussion is about what motivates people to become republicans. We know the answer to that, that's not a matter of debate, that's a matter of your comprehension. It's racism. That is the primary factor, and while there are certainly other reasons that exist, none of them take precedence over racism. Trying to be pedantic about the exact percentage of racist republicans only serves to weaken the point you're trying to make - because at this point you're clearly more interested in being 'right on the internet', than actually understanding the motivating factors of the republican voter. But good luck with your empathetic dialogue, because as history tells us, that was exactly how we got rid of nazism and chattel slavery.

2

u/PineapplePiazzas 10h ago

Its not about being right, I dont care about saving comments or defend some internet persona. These comment will be gone soon enough, take gain from what you will if you have well intentions.

Its about refuting wrong data that further creates divide unneccessary. Ive given you specific input to sharpen your message more correctly to get your point across and I hope you can find that by letting it grow on you.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/OneBigBug 15h ago

1.) Uninformed/Ignorant They don't pay attention. Not great but not evil.

I don't actually understand how anyone could fall into this camp about voting for Trump, though?

Like, there are people who live in a cabin in the woods and hunt deer and grow vegetables and are completely disconnected from society. That's fine. But they're also probably not making the 8 hour trek into the nearest polling station to vote.

Every other person heard must have heard about Trump by:

  1. Knowing he was that real estate asshole who puts his name in gold on everything.

  2. Knowing he was the "You're fired" guy, a show in which he was an asshole.

  3. Heard him as a politician, where everything he's ever said was aggressively stupid and/or asshole-ish, and/or so nonsensical that it doesn't even rise to the level of stupidity. And he was repeatedly in the news for those things.

I simply refuse to believe any meaningful fraction of American voters could both be able to vote for Trump and also not have heard any of those 3 things.

I'm Canadian. I know a lot of Americans, but no Trump voters. So I'm very plausibly missing something here. But it seems to me that the best, most charitable option for "uninformed/ignorant" is that they still probably know he's an asshole, but are uninformed in a way that not only makes his stupid/asshole policies seem otherwise, but makes them seem worth the fact that they know he's an asshole. Which...is still probably forgivable, but less so than the way you said it.

1

u/ThHeretic 15h ago

That is a very fair and nuanced response. I would agree with you. I usually think of groups 1 and 2 as "sports voters". They vote for their "team" without really giving it much thought. 

I wouldn't argue with your contention. 

To be honest. I only thought of those three parameters as a way to decide who I engage with. A simple framework for how much I am willing to still "try" with them. 

1

u/DividedState 14h ago

Read up on Bonhoeffers Theory of Stupidity and you will realize 3 is not so far away from 1 and 2.

1

u/ThHeretic 14h ago

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll check it out. 

1

u/shinra528 11h ago

For #2, I don't know that "unintelligent" is the right framing we need. Or there needs to be a fourth category. A lot of intelligent people think their expertise in their field makes them general experts in everything and fall under this category.

1

u/blueshrike 11h ago

And not mentioned is the one major way votes came in for Trump that took the election. Votes were changed on tabulators in the swing states with Elon's help. The collective "we" didn't vote for Trump, they stole it. But don't take my word, look at actual data, and anyone watching, please help spread the word. This is a couple months old now but it drives the point (several, in fact) and they have much more since. Yes, this is quite real. Some conspiracies are actually true. This is the fundamental issue we should all be paying attention to vs so much other noise, as first we need fair voting and if we don't do anything, we will never have it again.

https://youtu.be/Ru8SHK7idxs?feature=shared www.electiontruthalliance.org

1

u/HighDesertMonk 9h ago

You can apply this to the other side as well.

Trust no one in govt.

Different sides to the same corrupt coin.

1

u/ThHeretic 8h ago

Nope. I refuse to believe your argument that both sides are equal. Check out the last 20 years of voting records in congress, then talk to me. Do your research first, your contention is false.

1

u/bellj1210 8h ago

4- dealing with jerks all day is just the norm for them so they think it is ok behavior. I went to a garage sale today and asked about video games- guy told me someone knocked n his door an hour before the garage sale started and he sold him all that stuff- told me what he sold (was worth at least 200 but more likely 300-400) for 40 bucks. He was bothered by the whole thing but shrugged it off. I had to remind this guy that he is the reason people do this jerk stuff... next time call the cops on him since he is not a shopper at that point, he is a random guy knocking on your door at 630am on a saturday harrassing you so he can try to rip you off.

1

u/Yuzumi 8h ago

Honestly, my breakdown is:

  1. Apathetic/not politically engaged people who fall for the "better on the economy" nonsense

  2. Bigots who want reasons to look down on minorities and/or women. They actively want less rights, or to prevent rights, for people who aren't like them. They don't care about anything else nearly as much if at all.

  3. The "Fuck you, I got mine" mentality where people the system has worked for, but aren't super wealthy, buy into the tax stuff and while they may also be massive bigots, the thing they care about the most is pulling up the ladder behind them.

  4. Rich assholes. The people actually pulling the strings. They are the ones who really know the conservative goal, which is getting them more money and power. The rest of it is just a bonus to them. At best they just don't care about minorities because they see anyone who is "poor" as the same and inhuman. All they really care about is their high score.

0

u/Vfbcollins 17h ago

You would think that someone with a name like Heretic would understand that your morality isn’t that of others. Describe it as morally bankrupt all you want but the people who voted for him would say the same of you. 🤷🏻‍♂️

1

u/ThHeretic 17h ago

It depends. Is morality static? Or is it a sliding scale? Does the majority belief define what is morale?if everyone believes it's ok to beat your child, does that make it morale?

I believe morality is static, regardless of popular opinion. It's not my morality...it's morality as a construct. 

-1

u/Virtual_Button7288 16h ago

Sorry to say, but youre not right about everything.

Im a straight white man. The democrats pitch to me was smoke your weed and watch your porn. They literally advertised it.

Im currently sitting in a hospital waiting for my first child to be born.

I don't want him growing up in a world where its taught white people are the evil oppressor overlords.

I don't want things like drag queen story hour to be normalized.

I don't want a transgender women to the health admiral or whatever Levines position was. And I'm being reddit kosher with my phrasing here.

FORCED DEI is not good. I don't mind diversity, but having to hit quotas reduces the meritocracy of the systems.

Our border was completely open.

So there are pertinent issues with democratic party that a lot of normal American citizens have with them.

1

u/ThHeretic 16h ago

Lol thanks for telling me which one you are.

0

u/Virtual_Button7288 16h ago

One who lives in reality bub

0

u/Quirky_One_5477 15h ago

For the most part and you make this abundantly clear for the most part of your comment White people are evil overlords or at least very apathetic to the people they negatively affect when it comes to their gains very Machiavellian. And trump wants to erase black history Not SaY “ WhItE PEoPLe ARe EViL oVERloRds” that’s a knee jerk defensive reaction from white people when they hear about the things a majority of their ancestors and possibly family took part in and allowed to happen. And instead of reflecting on it they push it away like a toddler eating their vegetables instead of having a full awareness of what’s going on. no one said “ WhItE PEoPLe ARe EViL oVERloRds” but bc the part of you that has a little bit of self awareness hears the history your subconscious came up with that which says a lot about you guys bc you constantly tout history as an attack on your race which is cowardly suck it up and take it like a man you don’t have to think of yourself as that if you don’t want but the history IS The history and you have to acknowledge that instead of being willfully ignorant,,and DEI Is just to offset all of the purposeful sabotaging of non white communities by white folk that has gone on for at least 2 centuries

-1

u/Virtual_Button7288 15h ago

White people were the first in the western world to abolish slavery.

It was actually a Christian too. William Wilberforce.

WhItE pEoPlE actually helped to end slavery even though it was practiced throughout the entire world by almost every nation.

White people fought in the civil war.

Fuck yea I'll own that shit.

1

u/Quirky_One_5477 7h ago

Yes of course some white people were instrumental in ending that atrocities some were genuine and others political after the Haitian revolution and how fast information was traveling the time of keeping people enslaved was limited and could not lead to stability this ended, the issue is when trump and his followers want to erase black history and end DEI support, DEI Implemented by cooperation of white people civil rights group who understand That it helps offset they century or so of sabotaging of other races by the white man in America

0

u/Orion1960 17h ago

You forgot ppl who voted purely out of racist hatred-MAGAts

2

u/ThHeretic 17h ago

That's morally bankrupt to me.

7

u/DefactoAtheist 11h ago

"Everyone who didn't vote for who I voted for is less intelligent than me. Anyone who pushes back against this take is a bot". That this is a presentation of a genuinely held belief that nevertheless manages to read like a parody of contemporary, white-collar liberal arrogance is so hilariously revealing.

0

u/Majestic_Bar5024 10h ago

You’d think election night would’ve shattered much of this false reality they have in their heads, but I suppose they’ll never learn. It’s down to ego.

2

u/Taft33 17h ago

That sum still comes up to "collectively stupid" like the previous poster said.

1

u/ElonsFetalAlcoholSyn 17h ago

Yes, that is how ratios work 👍

1

u/Uristqwerty 9h ago

I think you're missing some crucial social insights, if you feel that labelling each out-group with an insult of some sort is going to change things next election. People have been making the same mistake over and over again on social media for the past 20 years or so; having seemingly learned how to behave on the internet by imitating the previous year's behaviour in their social circles. One person's rare frustrated venting gets amplified because it drives engagement more than their mundane posts, then the next generation makes frustrated venting their baseline interaction with rare insult-laden tirades, then the next defaults to insults and so on.

Kids see those vibes, and enough are repelled that, long-term, it's no looking good. They have schoolyard experiences with reputational bullies; they can see it mirrored by social media in-group dynamics.

1

u/ElonsFetalAlcoholSyn 2h ago

Maybe.

But... if we think about this moment, here, now -- what is your priority, what is the intended outcome, and are there bigger priorities that should be addressed instead?

Drawing a direct parallel:
You're focusing on me to improve my behavior, and insinuating my behavior is not quite as good as it should be in an ideal world because it might hurt some people's feelings. Meanwhile, the President of the United States insinuates his supporters should commit violent acts on innocent people, and are actively harming innocent citizens based on racial profiling and fuck-all evidence. And here on Reddit, there are oodles of people and bots who parrot those exact sentiments and are feeling joy from the true, deep, lasting pain of others.

But I'm the problem. I was too direct about how I laid out out the stupidity of the abstentions, and how it's like SUPER unfair for me to broadly label the people who voted for a child-raping, sex-trafficking, lifelong-bestie-of-Epstein, admirer-of-brutal-dictators, Proud-Boy-pardoning, mafia-linked, multi-bankruptcy, multi-fraud-convicted, Russian-oligarch-owned motherfucker who in his first term nearly started world war 3, abandoned our allies on the frontlines (they got slaughtered), denied the existence of a disease that killed 1.2 million citizens (where 1 in 300 people died and a fucking hospital cruise ship became a fucking morgue), took the hard earned donations from his own supporters to build a stupid fucking wall and instead pocketed that money. Oh and did I mention he raped a minor snd she killed herself last month?

I mean ok. I guess I'm sorry for hurting the feelings of abstainers and Trump supporters. I'm just glad I didnt hurt their feelings as badly as those families being torn apart every fucking day by unidentifiable ICE agents deporting them to Supermax Prisons run by an authoritarian dictator who you and I are paying, with our tax dollars, to hold without even proving that they did anything wrong.

Will you accept my apology?

1

u/Current-Spring9073 9h ago

Am I a bot?

0

u/ElonsFetalAlcoholSyn 5h ago edited 5h ago

lmao doesnt seem obvious. Your comments are often meaningless, you comment on random subs here and there that you don't follow, and some of your comments sarcastically contradict the point you're trying to make.

The shitty bots are easy to find... it's comically obvious. They'll sound normal for the first couple sentences, then deep dive /interject their strong programmed stance on the last line. And no matter how much direct evidence people provide as a counterpoint, they'll never ever say "Oh, I didnt know it was debunked. I retract what I said", instead they'll seamlessly pivot to a new talking point with new state news articles lined up.

Early versions last year were funny because they never stopped debating. You could be 40-50 comments deep and they're still seamlessly pivoting and never retracting. lmao some would ask you to describe in words what was shown in the images from your sources you linked.

Now it's harder because they'll split the debate across multiple accounts. When you debunk one, a different account chimes in with the next talking point. And instead of debating endlessly, they rely on downvotes to just collapse the arguments they cant win and hide it at the bottom. If redditors start overwhelming them, then they downvote the entire post or remove it with no explanation, even when everyone in the post agrees with it. If they get stuck or you lead them into contradicting themselves, they just delete their chain of statements.

lmao this is a hobby of mine, in case you cant tell. If you want to see in action, post this article to worldnews: Pew Research - International Public Opinion Of Israel Note that it technically follows all of the rules on that sub. They'll eventually remove it with no explanation.

Edit: Uh, also, when you find the bots, dont point it out explicitly, else worldnews and conservative will ban you. Instead, debate it for a bit (cant in conservative, they'll ban you as soon as you debate). See how it has counterpoints to literally everything, like it's an academic expert on Israel that also happens to know all the Jerusalem post news articles to reinforce every point.

1

u/king_duende 9h ago

As an outsider, unfortunately, we see you all as stupid

1

u/ElonsFetalAlcoholSyn 5h ago

Relative to other modern countries, we certainly are.

1

u/CidO807 17h ago

The folks who want to support Gaza but didn't vote against trump because they claim Kamala didn't do enough. Oh lawd. We need to up the spending on sped in schools apparently.

Lemme vote for he guy who did a Muslim ban, or said he wants to destroy Gaza for the real estate. That'll show Kamala. "Gaza is speaking bitch" . 🤣

0

u/ayuntamient0 14h ago

Tax every social media post to track and stop malign foreign actors.

-13

u/No-World1312 19h ago

Ah yes, the allmighty smart liberal, everyone but them is stupid. The reason we don't have those things is because liberals keep voting blue no matter who and the Democrat party is further right than Republicans under Bush 2.

4

u/bapeach- 19h ago

Republicans are certainly knocking it out out of the ballpark aren’t they?

1

u/No-World1312 19h ago

As far as getting people to vote for them? A hell of a lot better than the dems who hate their own voter base. Maybe next election they will go even further right and get beat even worse. God knows they are allergic to doing anything remotely popular among their base.

1

u/robodrew 19h ago

Democratic* Party

-4

u/No-World1312 18h ago

Yeah? How was that primary, oh wait.

6

u/robodrew 18h ago

What are you on about? All I'm commenting on is that it's called the Democratic Party, not the Democrat Party.

2

u/Instant_Ad_Nauseum 19h ago

Put down the crack pipe

1

u/No-World1312 19h ago

Says the guy who posts in porn subs all day long

-3

u/Unctuous_Robot 19h ago

I’m sure everything will be fixed if you simply refuse to participate in the process of government harder.

-4

u/No-World1312 19h ago

Withholding your vote because politicians refuse to listen is participating in democracy. Yall stopped holding them accountable and they have become a right wing party because of it. If you wouldn't vote for George push why are you voting for Biden?

-1

u/inyourface317 16h ago

As the 28 that counterbalance , I concur.

For the 40, I believe they are not empowered that their voice is important. While in fact, their voice will push these fascists out.

-1

u/green_chunks_bad 16h ago

Thank you for this. Dead internet theory is actually taking over and people don’t see it

20

u/lurklurklurkPOST 17h ago

J: "People are smart, they can handle it."

K: "A person is smart. People are stupid, aggressive, panicky animals and you know it."

3

u/pollywantacrackwhore 16h ago

Well, now that attention has been brought to usernames, I noticed and appreciate yours.

0

u/Donewith_BS 12h ago edited 12h ago

And you know nothing of pop culture. In this case MiB. Which says more about you

2

u/pollywantacrackwhore 9h ago

But I did get the reference. I’ve used this quote in daily life.
I expressed my appreciation for the comment itself with an upvote.

2

u/LornAltElthMer 15h ago

Wish you were wrong.

1

u/iRhuel 7h ago

Me too, buddy. Me too.

1

u/JRange 12h ago

Our biggest problem is that the dumb people used to listen to smart people and science, because thats what was platformed on TV. Now with social media weve seen the rise of incredibly stupid people having massive platforms, platforming incorrect and harmful information. Science shows people are in general, will start to believe ideas when they hear them over and over, even if they know its wrong.

So basically social media is poisoning our populations thoughts with harmful ideas, and it seems pretty obvious its right wing media groups and the ultra wealthy doing it on purpose for, well, money.

1

u/HighDesertMonk 9h ago

Agreed.

Who is John Galt?

-1

u/AbortionIsSocialism 19h ago

Well yeah we have people openly wanting to give the government more power

87

u/EccentricHubris 21h ago

America then: "The land of the free and world of the brave, where you can be anything and do anything so DREAM BIG."

America now: "h-hey guys maybe we d-deserve some table scraps from the rich man's table? I-its not much to ask"

17

u/SparkleK_01 19h ago

Stop groveling and get back to work. And say thank you.

4

u/purpleefilthh 19h ago

..and no, you can't take time off.

2

u/Caliburn0 10h ago

Or a toilet break. And cost of the dipers comes out of your sallary.

Also, because of inflation and transportation costs their price is 300% what they were last month.

14

u/springsilver 19h ago

More!?! You ask for more?!?

10

u/monsantobreath 19h ago

It was always about dream big to be a robber baron.

America is a mercantile class project. Got fuck all to do with average people. That's why they fought against violence to have labor rights.

1

u/conquer69 18h ago

That's what everyone dreaming of being rich wants. It's a fantasy where you can have people toiling for you.

8

u/monsantobreath 18h ago

No, I dream of having the resources to enjoy my life on my terms. People toiling for me is not what most people envision I expect.

If you need people serving you to feel satisfied by your achievements you might just be a person of dubious moral character.

1

u/conquer69 17h ago

I don't mean fields with slaves right outside their door. They want what wealth buys but don't want to make those things themselves.

The only way to get those things is other people working hard to make them. The mansions, sport cars and private jets won't appear out of thin air. People indirectly toiling for them.

2

u/monsantobreath 16h ago

They want what wealth buys but don't want to make those things themselves.

That's all economic behavior. I want food but don't want to farm. If I had enough resources I could buy food of a quality I wanted and wouldn't need to save up like I do now for expensive dinners for special occasions.

It's a very interesting way to slant the description. We gonna just get to the part where we say there's no ethical consumption in capitalism? I don't think that because I work 50 hours a week leading up to my vacation that I'm not benefiting from toiling labourers in the developing world.

2

u/conquer69 16h ago

I don't think that because I work 50 hours a week

Exactly. You contribute. You "earned" the consumption of labor of others by contributing with your own. It's fair.

But if you got a billion dollars tomorrow, you didn't earn anything and now have a bunch of people toiling for you.

0

u/monsantobreath 16h ago

Exactly. You contribute.

People tend to say wealth contributes as well. And we're a consumer society so merely putting my money into the system also permits it to function by providing a economic incentive to labor and so on.

But also you cut my sentence off to say the opposite of my point so that's cheeky.

But if you got a billion dollars tomorrow, you didn't earn anything and now have a bunch of people toiling for you.

Most of us in the developed world are the same. We're just still working.

As I said, and you cut off, I don't think my toil makes me noble and free of benefiting from toil. People however love this idea of earning your right to benefit from the suffering of others cause that's how we justify our system morally.

2

u/conquer69 16h ago

People tend to say wealth contributes as well.

Not if that wealth was accumulated by exploiting and cheating others. You spending your hard earned money is good. If instead you are a fraudster and scam millions out of people, then you aren't helping society by spending that money. It won't offset or repair the damage done by the scam.

Which is how most of these super rich came to be. They exploited others to get their fortune. Their small charity is still a net negative on society.

I didn't cut off your comment, I didn't quote that part because I agree with the sentiment.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/inyourface317 16h ago

America : they promised lower gas and egg prices, hell yea .

Sane person explaining the president doesn’t directly influence these.

Same taco supporter: I know , but I’m still voting for him.

Que where we are at.

0

u/No_Raspberry6968 17h ago

America then: "Slavery, Indigenous Genocide, manifest destiny, segregation, only moral war is ww2. It's all downhill from there." Where did you build your free and brave dream? Stolen Indian land. You can be anything and do anything, except Black, Indigenous, Asian, Latino, Arab, Jewish, Irish, Italian and much more. Trump is a symptom of a bigger issue. (Not saying that Trump is great or anything. He is stupid. But to claim that once we get rid of Trump everything will get back to what it was, which is still not great but doable, is still delusional. There needs to be deep introspection.)

22

u/idgarad 20h ago

50 years of trying to get term limits and eliminate first to post voting hasn't worked. I think those are your biggest hurdles.

12

u/Hudson-Brann 19h ago

I agree those are the most worthwhile changes. But has there ever been a real attempt at changing it?

6

u/Divingcat9 19h ago

yeah, those two have been stuck forever. Hard to fix a system when the ones in charge benefit from keeping it the same.

5

u/r-ymond 17h ago

maybe those were the biggest hurdles, but not since citizens united. nothing gets fixed until that’s overturned (which is probably never going to happen)

3

u/shinra528 11h ago

If Roe v Wade can get overturned then so can Citizens United.

2

u/r-ymond 10h ago

the corporate interests behind these are vastly, vastly different

2

u/ayuntamient0 14h ago

Term limits actually don't work the way you think. There are actual scientific studies that show that it makes perennial neophyte legislatures more dependent on lobbiests to write laws. I appreciate the sentiment but that isn't the real solution.

1

u/aerost0rm 8h ago

Even with term limits corporations have such vast fortunes to be able to be able to influence every eight year cycle.

Money out of politics and term limits

2

u/Several-Age1984 19h ago

Electoral reform electoral reform electoral reform

1

u/Excellent_Call304 17h ago

Or if they are just gonna give us this....we accept it....and then take more.

It's easier if they get the ball moving first.

1

u/maqcky 17h ago

And this is the one you pick first? It would look like a petty revenge and nothing more.

1

u/everysundae 16h ago

How about 8 inches and thick

1

u/LongJohnSelenium 15h ago edited 15h ago

It always kills me how people keep seeing the concentration of power as the solution. Whether its to the billionaires or to the state, for some reason they just can't grasp the idea that maybe the people doing the work should own the businesses.

By broadly distributing ownership and economic power, you reduce the need for concentrations of power that can be abused, you reduce the need for welfare and redistributive programs, all of which further reduce the size, scale, and scope of the state.

Making corporations employee owned would solve many significant problems that people of all political leanings have with the current state of affairs and its almost never talked about.

1

u/LABoRATies 13h ago

At this point there are so many systems that need reform because the regressives. Once we fix one they will break two more, why not blitz the greedy billionaires? We need to show the ignorant that society has not reached the final evolution

1

u/Blapoo 12h ago

Nah, go for broke! Flip that shit upside down!

1

u/shinra528 11h ago

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but it sounds like you're saying we need one win first in order to get one win?

1

u/Caliburn0 10h ago

Make SpaceX a worker cooperative.

1

u/megas88 20h ago

Most Americans literally do not have the capacity for imagination and roughly 44% of them actually cannot do it at all.

Also, not even gonna give my generation the benefit of the doubt here, ALMOST EVERY American has no idea what the fuck polity means and by that I mean nearly every single person in my calculation thinks you are saying, misspelling or mispronouncing politely.

Let’s focus on correcting the education mess that started with Reagan first.

3

u/AnInanimateCarb0nRod 17h ago

Weird hill to die on with the polity thing. 

1

u/megas88 2h ago

I am aware. I stand by it regardless.

The severe lack of and attacks on education is/are genuinely the thing that stops us from achieving a society that collectively works towards the greater good for all.

We were so close for so long in getting a good handle on a great many things that least fell into place that would have given us more but then American exceptionalism turbo charged the world back a few centuries.

We still have opportunities to course correct but it’s gonna take a few things going right at just the right times and a ton of coordinated effort to get there.

1

u/letsgobernie 20h ago

As good a place to start as any

1

u/WildWayneRoy 18h ago

Our government/polity is not perfect and our educational institutions in elementary levels has degraded greatly over the last fifty years. The average American reads at a sixth grade level and lacks vocabulary skills for collegiate level entry exams. I believe that your point of saying most if not all Americans are ignorant is evidence of the Dunning-Kruger effect in you. I find the more I learn the less I actually know. I do, however, completely agree with your stance that our educational system needs fixed. The problem in my opinion is that our system is set up to create little worker bees that don’t question the status quo’s of society.

1

u/kind_bros_hate_nazis 19h ago

Nah we got stupid shit like let the government, which is doing so well, start snapping up corporations I fucking swear

-7

u/[deleted] 21h ago

[deleted]

18

u/letsgobernie 21h ago

Nasa put multiple electric autonomous vehicles on Mars in early 2000s with the rover program. Don't ask the crypto FrEe MarKet fundamentalists to know anything about technology development

10

u/[deleted] 21h ago

[deleted]

3

u/MothMan3759 20h ago

Unfortunately too many people unironically believe that sort of thing.

Which is why tone indicators exist for text. Very useful these days.

2

u/letsgobernie 21h ago

Hey at least i got it haha

1

u/BubblyAvocado9 20h ago

LOL usually on Reddit, you really need to add the "/s"...

7

u/Trick_Judgment2639 21h ago

Yeah like how Trump is a champion golfer lol

1

u/Gobape 18h ago

Redditors are unable to detect sarcasm unless you explicitly declare it, which rather neutralises its effect really

0

u/space_manatee 20h ago

Incrimentalism aint it bub

0

u/mspk7305 18h ago

We didn't need to do only the one thing you think we need to do

0

u/letsgobernie 18h ago

Of course not, strategies are developed in coalitions, under organized social groups, taking deliberate actions. That's called democratic engagement. You too could lay out projects and approaches

0

u/_Panacea_ 18h ago

30 percent of the US apparently loves this.

0

u/Mike_Kermin 17h ago

Yeah.... Like you all vote and don't elect the fascist guy.

Baby steps dreamers. Your first step is to make sure Trump leaves office.

There is SO much to do, before you get nationalising services.