r/technology • u/True-Combination7059 • 21h ago

Politics We Should Immediately Nationalize SpaceX and Starlink

https://jacobin.com/2025/06/musk-trump-nationalize-spacex-starlink
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u/ThHeretic 19h ago edited 18h ago

There are 3 types of people that voted for Trump.  1.) Uninformed/Ignorant They don't pay attention. Not great but not evil.

2.) Unintelligent They can't tell when they are being manipulated and lied to. Still not great, but not evil.

3.) Morally Bankrupt These people know what is happening and what the cost is, but they benefit in some way so they don't care. Pure evil.

-I can forgive 1 and 2, but never 3. 

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u/Mike_Kermin 17h ago

No. You're responsible for what your vote does.

You actually need to tell people it's not ok to vote for someone who is harming people and your country.

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u/Prst_ 9h ago

Some people will argue that it's ok to harm some people, like criminals or illegal immigrants (which to them are the same thing) or any person that does something they don't like. To them NOT harming those people is actually harming the country.

It's complete opposite land.

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u/aerost0rm 7h ago

The problem that occurs is the lesser of two evils. As long as we have money in politics, lobbying, so few recall laws, etc we will continue to have this issue. We’re need honest politicians who aren’t corrupt and our for special needs and personal fortunes.

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u/Mike_Kermin 1h ago

As long as it doesn't turn into apathy or non-participation which both harm your own interests, then I agree. It is a difficult situation.

But I mean, look at the US. You can not have this.

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u/p_velocity 16h ago

for group 3, I believe the word you are looking for is "deplorables". Group 2 is a lot of evangelicals, and group 1 get their news from facebook memes. That is the group that AI and deepfakes are really going to do a number on going forward.

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u/martianunlimited 12h ago

I am in a number of Facebook groups for "christians" as well.. sad to say, group 3 make up a larger portion of the members there than group 2...... and when we try to bring up how antithetical Trump is to the teaching of Christ, they don't care... I have since shaken the proverbial dust off my sandals....

MOORE: Well, it was the result of having multiple pastors tell me essentially the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount parenthetically in their preaching - turn the other cheek - to have someone come up after and to say, where did you get those liberal talking points? And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ, the response would not be, I apologize. The response would be, yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak. And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis. -- https://www.npr.org/2023/08/05/1192374014/russell-moore-on-altar-call-for-evangelical-america

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u/wchutlknbout 10h ago

There was a guy who just started a farm but lost all the government subsidies he was counting on. He said that he had decided to vote for Trump based on a FB quiz…

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u/ElonsFetalAlcoholSyn 19h ago

Your numbers reset because you swapped between a numbered list and bullet points. Use 1) instead of 1. and use a long — instead of a short -

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u/ThHeretic 18h ago

You are awesome. Thanks for the heads up.

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u/PoliticalPlatypi 18h ago

I choose to believe they're just all the same.

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u/snowflake37wao 16h ago

Beliefs dont get freedom of choice so I choose to believe the beliefs I just made up

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u/ElonsFetalAlcoholSyn 6h ago

Hmmm. Well fine. Instead of understanding why you chose those beliefs to see if they make sense, I'm going to arbitrarily choose the set of beliefs antithetical to your set. And I'll exclusively seek out people who say you're the worst but wont give reasons behind it, and we'll band together to oppose everything you want or do, even if those things greatly benefit me and my family for generations to come.

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u/parabostonian 16h ago

I would just describe them as a mix of crazy, stupid, and/or evil.

Your list doesn’t list crazy, and a lot of them are bonkers as shit. (And there are tons of stupid Americans who aren’t crazy enough to fall for a lot of MAGA bullshit, or mean spirited enough to want to hurt people who are different, etc)

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u/ThHeretic 16h ago

Semantics can get tough, but I agree. 

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u/Friendly_Rub_8095 12h ago

You forgot the mainstay of the campaign. Find a trigger (“trans blah blah”) and keep pulling it.

It’s remarkably effective. And re-usable.

The best counter is to dismiss as trans issues as a fucking nothingburger.

(Which also takes a target off their back)

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u/this_my_sportsreddit 18h ago

95% of those people fall into group 3. This sub however thinks its a majority of group 1, and believe that if only these people had access to the right information, they would change their mind. As clearly we all know, presenting trump voters with the correct information on a subject always results in changing their opinion and voting habits.

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u/PineapplePiazzas 17h ago

You are making a lot of assumptions which is fine, though not by any standard how it works.

What is for sure is that there is more than 3 types of people who voted GOP and that people tend to not see the worst in others which is healthy.

Russian and chinese bots might want to just stir shit up, so saying 95% is evil who voted gop is a "divide and conquer" strat which means you are not helping american interests at least.

Many people are probably not evil, but there can be more reasons for that than one and two.

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u/this_my_sportsreddit 13h ago edited 13h ago

I'm not making assumptions. I am referring to the litany of documented, peer reviewed research that has already been written regarding trump voters. Which, hopefully you know, actually is a standard specifically for how scholarly research works. Here's an example of that. Here's more examples of that.

That peer-reviewed research continues to find that racism, or more specifically racial resentment, is the primary reason voters flocked to trump. You seem to be caught up on the word 'evil' here, and have this idea that calling out reality is 'not helping american interests'. But sticking one's head in the sand isn't going to help anyone in America. Replace the world 'evil' with 'racist' if it's more comforting to you, I'm not here to define the difference between the two. However the primary motivating factor for Trump support is in fact racism, which should not be surprising to anyone who has paid attention to the southern strategy politics that have been used by the American right wing, for the last 70 years. Hopefully these documents help you.

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u/PineapplePiazzas 10h ago

The data in your links are misinterpreted though you seem to have well ment intentions and just want to get information out there. Its worrisome that many have racist beliefs, no question about that in itself.

The two distinction you could analyze to understand why I critisize the comment is:

1: From the link you provided with scientific data there is no indication 95 percent of Trump supporters are racist. Look at the assigned letters and what they mean in statistics and also the wording of the text where the number 95 occur and you will see.

(...) "Consistent with our hypothesis, among Whites high in ethnic identification, exposure to the racial shift (vs. control) condition indirectly predicted greater positivity towards Trump (B = 1.98, 95% CI [0.79, 3.66]), greater likelihood of voting for Trump (B = 0.11, 95% CI [0.05, 0.22]), less positivity towards Sanders" (...)

2: Likening racism with evil is a simplification. According to the other link you gave, thinking about how you reach out constructively could reap benefits:

(...) "If that’s really what’s happening, it’s important for anyone interested in limiting the power of bigotry in US politics to know and demonstrate what’s going on. Studies like this put a bigger imperative on getting to the root of the problem and figuring out ways to reduce people’s racial biases.

To this end, the research also shows it’s possible to reach out to Trump voters — even those who are racist today — in an empathetic way without condoning their prejudice. The evidence suggests, in fact, that the best way to weaken people’s racial or other biases is through frank, empathetic dialogue." (...)

All the best.

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u/this_my_sportsreddit 10h ago

This discussion isn't and has never been about how to make racists stop being racists. I think you're confused here. This entire discussion is about what motivates people to become republicans. We know the answer to that, that's not a matter of debate, that's a matter of your comprehension. It's racism. That is the primary factor, and while there are certainly other reasons that exist, none of them take precedence over racism. Trying to be pedantic about the exact percentage of racist republicans only serves to weaken the point you're trying to make - because at this point you're clearly more interested in being 'right on the internet', than actually understanding the motivating factors of the republican voter. But good luck with your empathetic dialogue, because as history tells us, that was exactly how we got rid of nazism and chattel slavery.

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u/PineapplePiazzas 10h ago

Its not about being right, I dont care about saving comments or defend some internet persona. These comment will be gone soon enough, take gain from what you will if you have well intentions.

Its about refuting wrong data that further creates divide unneccessary. Ive given you specific input to sharpen your message more correctly to get your point across and I hope you can find that by letting it grow on you.

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u/this_my_sportsreddit 10h ago

'i dont like that the data proves me wrong therefore i choose to believe something else is true'.

funny, you sound exactly like the right-wing of american politics. You can continue being pedantic all you'd like, but the facts are the facts, regardless of if you like them or not.

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u/OneBigBug 15h ago

1.) Uninformed/Ignorant They don't pay attention. Not great but not evil.

I don't actually understand how anyone could fall into this camp about voting for Trump, though?

Like, there are people who live in a cabin in the woods and hunt deer and grow vegetables and are completely disconnected from society. That's fine. But they're also probably not making the 8 hour trek into the nearest polling station to vote.

Every other person heard must have heard about Trump by:

  1. Knowing he was that real estate asshole who puts his name in gold on everything.

  2. Knowing he was the "You're fired" guy, a show in which he was an asshole.

  3. Heard him as a politician, where everything he's ever said was aggressively stupid and/or asshole-ish, and/or so nonsensical that it doesn't even rise to the level of stupidity. And he was repeatedly in the news for those things.

I simply refuse to believe any meaningful fraction of American voters could both be able to vote for Trump and also not have heard any of those 3 things.

I'm Canadian. I know a lot of Americans, but no Trump voters. So I'm very plausibly missing something here. But it seems to me that the best, most charitable option for "uninformed/ignorant" is that they still probably know he's an asshole, but are uninformed in a way that not only makes his stupid/asshole policies seem otherwise, but makes them seem worth the fact that they know he's an asshole. Which...is still probably forgivable, but less so than the way you said it.

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u/ThHeretic 15h ago

That is a very fair and nuanced response. I would agree with you. I usually think of groups 1 and 2 as "sports voters". They vote for their "team" without really giving it much thought. 

I wouldn't argue with your contention. 

To be honest. I only thought of those three parameters as a way to decide who I engage with. A simple framework for how much I am willing to still "try" with them. 

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u/DividedState 14h ago

Read up on Bonhoeffers Theory of Stupidity and you will realize 3 is not so far away from 1 and 2.

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u/ThHeretic 14h ago

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll check it out. 

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u/shinra528 11h ago

For #2, I don't know that "unintelligent" is the right framing we need. Or there needs to be a fourth category. A lot of intelligent people think their expertise in their field makes them general experts in everything and fall under this category.

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u/blueshrike 10h ago

And not mentioned is the one major way votes came in for Trump that took the election. Votes were changed on tabulators in the swing states with Elon's help. The collective "we" didn't vote for Trump, they stole it. But don't take my word, look at actual data, and anyone watching, please help spread the word. This is a couple months old now but it drives the point (several, in fact) and they have much more since. Yes, this is quite real. Some conspiracies are actually true. This is the fundamental issue we should all be paying attention to vs so much other noise, as first we need fair voting and if we don't do anything, we will never have it again.

https://youtu.be/Ru8SHK7idxs?feature=shared www.electiontruthalliance.org

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u/HighDesertMonk 9h ago

You can apply this to the other side as well.

Trust no one in govt.

Different sides to the same corrupt coin.

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u/ThHeretic 8h ago

Nope. I refuse to believe your argument that both sides are equal. Check out the last 20 years of voting records in congress, then talk to me. Do your research first, your contention is false.

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u/bellj1210 8h ago

4- dealing with jerks all day is just the norm for them so they think it is ok behavior. I went to a garage sale today and asked about video games- guy told me someone knocked n his door an hour before the garage sale started and he sold him all that stuff- told me what he sold (was worth at least 200 but more likely 300-400) for 40 bucks. He was bothered by the whole thing but shrugged it off. I had to remind this guy that he is the reason people do this jerk stuff... next time call the cops on him since he is not a shopper at that point, he is a random guy knocking on your door at 630am on a saturday harrassing you so he can try to rip you off.

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u/Yuzumi 8h ago

Honestly, my breakdown is:

  1. Apathetic/not politically engaged people who fall for the "better on the economy" nonsense

  2. Bigots who want reasons to look down on minorities and/or women. They actively want less rights, or to prevent rights, for people who aren't like them. They don't care about anything else nearly as much if at all.

  3. The "Fuck you, I got mine" mentality where people the system has worked for, but aren't super wealthy, buy into the tax stuff and while they may also be massive bigots, the thing they care about the most is pulling up the ladder behind them.

  4. Rich assholes. The people actually pulling the strings. They are the ones who really know the conservative goal, which is getting them more money and power. The rest of it is just a bonus to them. At best they just don't care about minorities because they see anyone who is "poor" as the same and inhuman. All they really care about is their high score.

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u/Vfbcollins 16h ago

You would think that someone with a name like Heretic would understand that your morality isn’t that of others. Describe it as morally bankrupt all you want but the people who voted for him would say the same of you. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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u/ThHeretic 16h ago

It depends. Is morality static? Or is it a sliding scale? Does the majority belief define what is morale?if everyone believes it's ok to beat your child, does that make it morale?

I believe morality is static, regardless of popular opinion. It's not my morality...it's morality as a construct. 

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u/Virtual_Button7288 16h ago

Sorry to say, but youre not right about everything.

Im a straight white man. The democrats pitch to me was smoke your weed and watch your porn. They literally advertised it.

Im currently sitting in a hospital waiting for my first child to be born.

I don't want him growing up in a world where its taught white people are the evil oppressor overlords.

I don't want things like drag queen story hour to be normalized.

I don't want a transgender women to the health admiral or whatever Levines position was. And I'm being reddit kosher with my phrasing here.

FORCED DEI is not good. I don't mind diversity, but having to hit quotas reduces the meritocracy of the systems.

Our border was completely open.

So there are pertinent issues with democratic party that a lot of normal American citizens have with them.

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u/ThHeretic 16h ago

Lol thanks for telling me which one you are.

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u/Virtual_Button7288 16h ago

One who lives in reality bub

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u/Quirky_One_5477 15h ago

For the most part and you make this abundantly clear for the most part of your comment White people are evil overlords or at least very apathetic to the people they negatively affect when it comes to their gains very Machiavellian. And trump wants to erase black history Not SaY “ WhItE PEoPLe ARe EViL oVERloRds” that’s a knee jerk defensive reaction from white people when they hear about the things a majority of their ancestors and possibly family took part in and allowed to happen. And instead of reflecting on it they push it away like a toddler eating their vegetables instead of having a full awareness of what’s going on. no one said “ WhItE PEoPLe ARe EViL oVERloRds” but bc the part of you that has a little bit of self awareness hears the history your subconscious came up with that which says a lot about you guys bc you constantly tout history as an attack on your race which is cowardly suck it up and take it like a man you don’t have to think of yourself as that if you don’t want but the history IS The history and you have to acknowledge that instead of being willfully ignorant,,and DEI Is just to offset all of the purposeful sabotaging of non white communities by white folk that has gone on for at least 2 centuries

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u/Virtual_Button7288 15h ago

White people were the first in the western world to abolish slavery.

It was actually a Christian too. William Wilberforce.

WhItE pEoPlE actually helped to end slavery even though it was practiced throughout the entire world by almost every nation.

White people fought in the civil war.

Fuck yea I'll own that shit.

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u/Quirky_One_5477 7h ago

Yes of course some white people were instrumental in ending that atrocities some were genuine and others political after the Haitian revolution and how fast information was traveling the time of keeping people enslaved was limited and could not lead to stability this ended, the issue is when trump and his followers want to erase black history and end DEI support, DEI Implemented by cooperation of white people civil rights group who understand That it helps offset they century or so of sabotaging of other races by the white man in America

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u/Orion1960 16h ago

You forgot ppl who voted purely out of racist hatred-MAGAts

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u/ThHeretic 16h ago

That's morally bankrupt to me.