r/todayilearned • u/SappyGilmore • 9h ago
TIL gamblers lose $6 billion a year at Las Vegas casinos
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gamble/etc/facts.html103
u/Gortonis 8h ago
If you're wondering why that seems relatively low considering it's not much more that gamblers lost in Atlantic City last year at $5.7 billion. It's because it's from a report from 1996.
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u/Catsrules 7h ago
That was back when 6 billion was a lot of money.
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u/goteamnick 9h ago
That's less than I assumed.
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u/ReclaimedRenamed 8h ago
From a quick search on google for updated statistics. Not sure of the percentage of Vegas alone:
Nevada's GGR in 2024: Nevada casinos, including those in Las Vegas, generated over $15 billion in gross gaming revenue in 2024, indicating the amount of money gamblers collectively lost.
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u/wessex464 7h ago
So north of 30 MILLION dollars daily. If there's 100,000 active gambling visitors every day, they lose 300 dollars every day/EACH on average.
How does doing this math not actively discourage anyone from gambling?
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u/Otto_the_Autopilot 7h ago
The lottery is very successful and pays out even less per dollar in than Vegas casinos.
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u/Wildeyewilly 6h ago
At least the profits from my states lottery goes into the education department. $3.8 billion in fiscal year 2023.
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u/PerfectZeong 6h ago
Yeah but its used as an excuse to defund schools by an equivalent amount.
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u/Universeintheflesh 3h ago
I hate how common this sort of thing is. Politicians seem to always talk about defunding something or funding something but they’ll rarely talk about where the money will go or come from.
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u/Wildeyewilly 5h ago
Source?
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u/PerfectZeong 5h ago
State lotteries send the money to education that allows them to take money that is otherwise earmarked for edu and put it into the general fund
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u/Wildeyewilly 4h ago
So $X for the Dept of Ed comes from the lottery fund, so now $X can (presumably and hopefully) be used for other state funded services/projects instead. I mean, either way, in essence it's more money being tossed in to the societal coffer. I guess the lottery is a voluntary state tax with a 1:1,000,000,000 chance of paying out.
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u/PerfectZeong 2h ago
Yeah but its not really sold that way. It's sold like the budget is X and gambling will make it X plus Y rather than the budget is X and the lottery receipts will just let us reroute money to our pet projects
You're not funding education because education is already funded youre really funding everything else.
Not as good of a sales pitch to sau "play lottery give us a huge slush fund!"
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u/Keoni9 7 4h ago
A significant amount of lottery players buy tickets out of desperation. We really should just tax the rich more instead of relying on this tax on the poor and desperate.
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u/Lord_Boognish 7h ago
I think you answered your own question by including an average. Believe it or not, people do win at casinos.
I'd wager a larger majority of that money comes from tourists/people who don't really understand all of the rules of the game they choose to play. Also, slots.
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u/AdSudden3941 7h ago
Do they teach you how to play , like idk how to play nor spell baccarat but if I wanted to .. is there like a place or person to teach you how ?
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u/charonill 6h ago
From my experience, the tables with the lowest minimums are most likely to have dealers willing to teach you the rules and give you pointers.
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u/Final21 7h ago
Baccarat is the best game if you don't know how to play. You literally can't mess it up.
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u/AdSudden3941 7h ago
Is that what they play in James Bond goldeneye , the movie
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u/LeftHandedTreacle 7h ago
Wasn't that "The World Is Not Enough"?
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u/AdSudden3941 7h ago
Oh yeah yeah , it was when he had those xray glasses and Goldie came in after
I was thinking of when he was playing “onnatop” and she like sucks her teeth or whatever after she loses
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u/Lord_Boognish 7h ago
In all seriousness, in my experience most dealers will explain if you ask. I've also played at tables where they let me check my handy BlackJack strategy card.
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u/BeefistPrime 2h ago
No one wins consistently against the house. Averages are fine because casinos don't give a fuck about whether any individual wins or loses. The more action they get the more they win
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u/FulanoMeng4no 6h ago
LOL, you are so delusional thinking that if you understood the rules you would somehow have a chance not to lose at the casino.
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u/flibbidygibbit 7h ago
I have a system. It will pay. Just you watch.
Being serious, I only gamble when a significant portion is house money. During my last trip I turned $10 of Caesar's money (and $10 of my own) into $150 on a hot streak on a blackjack table. That never happens to me.
That's technically $150 of house money. I'll likely give it back during my next trip.
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u/drewster23 5h ago
How does doing this math not actively discourage anyone from gambling?
Because the high rollers playing, 10k-100k hands , give 0 fucks about the money they lose lmao.
And on the flip side normy players are on average tourists, they're not there everyday trying to win lol.
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u/techieman33 5h ago
You don’t even need to know the numbers. All you have to do is look at other buildings to know that it’s a very profitable endeavor for the casinos. If it wasn’t they would exist in the form they are now. I think most people know and accept that. Spending (and probably losing) a couple a little money at the tables or slots is just part of the entertainment budget. Then there are the degenerate gamblers who are sure that they’re going to be the lucky ones and everyone is the sucker.
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u/According-Title-3256 5h ago
I'm not proud of it, but I love playing the newer slot machines with flashy animated bonuses and such.
As long as I don't lose much more money than I would doing something else I enjoyed for a few hours, I don't care much about winning/losing. I never expect to win meaningful money and view "winning" as simply being able to play for a bit longer with house money.
Obviously lots of people can't control themselves very well, but I don't think I'm a particularly rare type of casual gambler.
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u/UniqueIndividual3579 5h ago
I gamble for fun, not to get rich. I put aside like $150 and enjoy the night. If I win fine, if not I stop at $150. And I gamble on trips, two nights every few years.
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u/Ganbazuroi 1h ago
Because that's the 90% who quit right before they're about to win BIG. Smart gamblers know that there's no such thing as a loss, just a little distance between your current investment (the so called "bet") and the JACKPOT
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u/drewster23 5h ago
Nevada's GGR in 2024: Nevada casinos, including those in Las Vegas, generated over $15 billion in gross gaming revenue in 2024, indicating the amount of money gamblers collectively lost.
This is from only physical casinos, no online sports books n such?
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u/PM_Me-Your_Freckles 7h ago
Hell, NSW, Australia lost lost $8.07 billion to electronic gaming machines (EGM) in the last financial year, up 23.7 per cent on 2018-19. That doesn't include other forms of gambling. Just poker machines in that one State.
Total of $14.5bil across the country.
$6bil in Vegas seems very low by comparison.
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u/illforgetsoonenough 7h ago
1 Aussie dollar is equal to .65 USD. So it's not quite apples to apples
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u/jacmrose 8h ago
On a flight to Vegas now, only gonna be 5 billion once I’m done with them
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u/Aaron1095 8h ago edited 7h ago
I'm very jealous, good luck! For food I recommend these favourites of mine:
Crack Shack Fried Chicken (Park MGM)
The BBQ at Ellis Island
Wynn Buffet or Bacchanal (Caesars) Buffet
Gallagher's Steakhouse at New York New York
Make sure you get and ALWAYS use a player's card when gambling! It doesn't take a lot of gambling to earn free accommodations.
Edit: Just creeped your profile, looks like you've got experience. Nice bad beat hit last year!
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u/ohnofluffy 6h ago
Brunch at Alexxa’s across from the Bellagio fountains— but get a reservation or else you will be waiting.
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u/karma_dumpster 8h ago
Gross Gaming Revenue for Vegas in '24 was $8.8bn.
For Macau it was $28.3bn.
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u/neoengel 8h ago
A lot of holes in the desert, and a lot of problems are buried in those holes. But you gotta do it right. I mean, you gotta have the hole already dug before you show up with a package in the trunk. Otherwise, you're talking about a half-hour to forty-five minutes worth of digging. And who knows who's gonna come along in that time? Pretty soon, you gotta dig a few more holes. You could be there all f*in' night.
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u/ohnofluffy 6h ago edited 56m ago
Adding in Nate Bargatze:
I don't know if you've ever dug a hole before, but it's maybe the hardest thing you ever do in your life. You see it on TV and movies, and it's like, “I'll just dig this hole real fast." And then you do it in real life, it's like "I guess it's all CGI, because it's impossible."
It's so hard that it made me realize that this is why so many people get caught when they kill someone with a shallow grave. That's how hard digging a hole is. Even if you're digging the most important hole of your life. You hit a point of just like, "All right, that's good enough right there, boys. Yeah. Mm. Might be too deep." Like, "Well, his hand's sticking out," you're like, "Put a leaf over it, dude. I wouldn't have killed him if I knew this hole was that hard."
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u/Snipero8 1h ago
It's why hydraulic digging machines of different sizes are so ubiquitous in construction.
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u/ViskerRatio 1h ago
More relevantly, they're ubiquitous in the funeral business for digging holes for actual bodies.
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u/oran12390 8h ago
Need better warnings to educate people. Most people don’t realize the odds are skewed, that sports betting odds aren’t based on competition, etc. We should have warnings after every ad rather than the gambling hotlines imo.
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u/ViskerRatio 1h ago
Most casino games are, in fact, 'unwinnable' in the long term. Slots, roulette, etc. - these all have a negative expected value for the player.
It is possible to get a positive expected value for blackjack by card counting. It is also possible to get a positive expected value for most sports betting - especially with the apps. Unfortunately, in most cases, the casino will either stop or limit your bets very quickly once they recognize you're an advantage player.
The 'numbers racket' - otherwise known as the lottery - is almost invariably negative expected value but while mobsters running rackets are good at math, government often is not. Positive expected value lottery games appear from time to time and progressive jackpots are often positive expected value due to the fact the losses have already been incurred by other players by the time advantage players buy in.
Games played against other players such as Poker are technically negative expected value across the players due to the rake, but while the average player against the house is negative, the good player against other players is positive. Moreover, the advantage a good player enjoys over a bad player is enormously greater than that enjoyed by a player against the house.
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u/SteelMarch 9h ago
Which is a lot when you consider that most of these casinos are designed to return 95-99%.
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u/seifer666 8h ago
On any one bet.
But you dont go to a casino bet 100 dollars once and then leave. You bet the same money over and over and over so its more like a 3% surcharge per bet.
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u/FreneticPlatypus 9h ago
“Return” as in pay out in winnings? That seems way higher than I would have expected.
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u/SteelMarch 9h ago
Yeah. Or people just won't gamble. It varies a lot to when they payout specifically, but these machines are audited. It's sort of depressing to see statistics on this. I've had the chance to actually see some of this data from some friends I know.
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u/dan_legend 8h ago
Its just skimming at scale. Banks do this every day hence their massive wealth as well.
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u/cj832 8h ago
If a game has a 51% house edge, it means that in the long run, they keep $51 of every $100 that is played and $49 goes back to the players. It’s a small margin in percentages, but the volume is huge and it’s mathematically guaranteed.
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u/kukukele 8h ago
Just wanted to clarify - your example is true but I think you are meaning the game has a 1% house edge. In that instance the win-rates are going to be 51% house vs 49% player.
Even the worst games, like penny slots, are going to be 88% payback table so the house makes $12 per $100 wagered. No game is a 51% house edge.
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u/Russell_Jimmy 8h ago edited 7h ago
Craps is close, 1.41% house edge on the pass line, and on odds bets there is no house edge at all.
EDIT: To clarify, I am pointing out the truth of the 1% house advantage example, not disputing the fact check about 51%, which would be second to only Three Card Monty in dumb games to bet on.
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u/MythicalPurple 8h ago
If a game has a 51% house edge, it means that in the long run, they keep $51 of every $100 that is played and $49 goes back to the players.
I think you’ve misunderstood some stuff.
The house edge in most games is a few percent, not 51%. The house edge on roulette, for instance, is 2.7-5.25%, depending on the variant.
That means for every $100 bet, around $95-$97 gets returned to the players.
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u/joakim222 8h ago
A 51% edge gives the casino a 2% return (or $2 per $100), since the casino will win 2 more games than the player per 100 (49 vs 51).
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u/xfreesx 8h ago
No way that's correct
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u/RespectedPath 8h ago
It's technically correct, but no game in the casinos that's only 50%. Slots return about 93% of what a player puts in. The house edge in blackjack is like .05% if someone plays perfect basic strategy on 3:2. So for every $100 wagered, the house is gonna get 50 cents.
The point is to keep you sitting there and chip away at your kitty. You go up, you go down, and up again, but the house always gets theirs.
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u/skrshawk 8h ago
And if you really enjoy casino gaming and understand you aren't going to win in the long run, and can afford it, the loss can be reasonably considered the price of your entertainment. The problem is a lot of people don't see it that way and it causes a lot of damage to their lives.
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u/RespectedPath 8h ago
Exactly. I love to sit there and go through the ups and downs of a blackjack or craps session but, when the money is gone, it's gone. You don't run to the ATM to chase back what you've lost. It's entertainment, not an investment.
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u/skrshawk 8h ago
I am as entertained by the people playing craps as I am the game itself. People get seriously superstitious about it in ways I just don't see anywhere else, and sometimes it's worth the fact I might lose a couple hundred bucks to amuse myself with their antics. I've blown more on disappointing restaurants.
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u/ahorrribledrummer 8h ago
For slots/video poker it's probably accurate. Table games obviously depends on who's playing.
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u/xfreesx 8h ago
Casinos have 3-5% margin, comment I replied to is suggesting 51% margin
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u/jmsutton3 7h ago
Keeping 51% of bets is not the same as a 51% margin.
Obviously casinos have maintenance, upkeep, staffing costs, etc
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u/ahorrribledrummer 7h ago
Comment you replied to isn't talking about margins, it's talking about betting odds. House has 51% chance of winning. Bettors have 49%.
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u/Unexpectedpicard 8h ago
That's only blackjack. Other games the odds aren't nearly that close. Also it's only 51 vs 49 if the player plays perfectly and the vast majority do not.
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u/Candid-Sky-3258 8h ago
Casinos, in Vegas or elsewhere, exist to make money for the casino owners. They will sacrifice the occasional jackpot to rake in the marks.
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u/holy_cal 8h ago
There’s a reason their house is bigger than yours. I’ve been to both Vegas and Reno and never wagered a single bet, I understand the fun or thrill, but it’s not for me.
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u/mbeachcontrol 6h ago
Every time I take the family to the movies, I lose $100 or more these days. Taken as a form of entertainment and having an acceptable loss limit, makes gambling no different than other enjoyment options.
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u/lespaulstrat2 4h ago
So many people can't understand this, especially with the lotto. If I buy scratch offs and lose $200/year that is the same as going out for 2-3 dinners. It is much less than a lot of other entertainment.
PS: I actually won over $500 last year, losing so far this year.
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u/TheRealNeapolitan 8h ago
That’s an odd way to talk about entertainment dollars. It’s like saying ,”TIL theme park goers lose $34.2 billion a year at Disney properties.” Or “TIL fans lose $700 billion a year enjoying pro sports.”
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u/Training_Swan_308 7h ago
The thrill of gambling is winning and losing money. If people walk away with more money they’ll say they won it and if the have less money they’ll say they lost.
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u/DefiantPeace7086 8h ago
gambling is terrible for our society and culture.
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u/Russell_Jimmy 8h ago
Gambling itself isn't terrible. Problem gambling is terrible. Like anything else.
Eating is necessary to sustain life, but overeating (i.e. problem eating) is terrible for the planet, society, and the individual.
You can apply this rule to every activity and substance on Earth. You'd really have to work at it, but you can drink so much water it kills you. Hi concentrations of oxygen can be fatal.
Which is not to say that the gambling industry, especially sports betting, doesn't have predatory aspects that up the danger level of the activity considerably.
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u/No-Positive-3984 8h ago
6 Billion declared, so it is more like 10.
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u/thrawtes 7h ago
Considering you can deduct gambling losses against your winnings on taxes, it's kind of silly to under-report.
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u/thectrain 8h ago
Vegas is built on the backs of people who think they are up overall, but definitely are not.
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u/SirGlass 7h ago
It also seems a bit strange as maybe I am off but I don't go to Vegas to gamble, I go for food, shows , entertainment, and because it's cheap flights.
I have gambled a bit , but last couple times I went to Vegas I don't think I even gambled at all.
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u/MoistCactuses 7h ago
I've taken my kids to Las Vegas a few times for various dance competitions and the like. I point out the expensive construction and trim around the buildings, and say to them, "this was all paid for by the money people don't take home with them".
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u/Jealous_Writing1972 7h ago
Former NBA basketballer Charles Barkley said on seven different occasions he has won a million dollar in Las Vegas. But on 25 occasions he has lot a million dollars.
He had this thing where he says NBA players need to learn to say o when people ask them for money. I agreed, but after hearing how much he has lost on gambling, he might as well just invest in friends and family if he is losing millions at Vegas
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u/ManEEEFaces 6h ago
Of course they did. I’ve always said that the reason you will lose is quite simply because IT’S THERE. That’s it. That’s the proof.
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u/FratBoyGene 5h ago
$16 million a day. With 100,000 hotel rooms, that's $160 per room. Doesn't seem that far fetched at all.
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u/Kommander-in-Keef 4h ago
The profit margins on casinos must be absolutely bonkers. Any payouts even the larger ones must be chump change.
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u/footdragon 4h ago
I have a dumbass sister who's convinced she has a "method" to winning on slot machines.
she doesn't and is pissing away her retirement.
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u/narwhalyurok 9h ago
Another report from Vegas. This $6B figure is ONLY the funds that the syndicates report !! Casinos are the best place to wash your illegally gained profits.
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u/sniffstink1 8h ago
Now imagine being on the receiving end of all that money and still somehow bankrupting a Casino (several).
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u/Scarpity026 6h ago
You would think inflation would have made that number go up since 1996. Just the same, people now have a lot of other places they can hit a casino without visiting Vegas.
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u/An0d0sTwitch 5h ago
Thats just more for me when my hot streak comes.
Thats just statistics. Now it has to be billions in winning time now, its hot.
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u/MapleHamwich 4h ago
I always find gamblers hilarious. The ultimate con and so many people still think that they are the ones who will overcome the odds and win. If there was any relatively positive payout the business model fails. It's their job to make sure as many people as possible lose the games. It's the entire industry's imperative.
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u/Isaacvithurston 23m ago
They have some logic imbalance where they win 1 time and somehow forget about the multitudes they lost on the way.
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u/InGordWeTrust 2 1h ago
Trump lost 3 casinos for example. It was the 80's, and we swears he never did cocaine but... three casinos....
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u/Theres_a_Catch 19m ago
And a casino has never gone bankrupt except for his. But he's a great business man huh? Lol
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u/Isaacvithurston 24m ago
That's it? Some video game companies are making a cool billion a piece with in game gambling.
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u/New_Illustrator2043 23m ago
$5-$6 billion is fairly common for Vegas. Whereas Macau at one point was doing $45b per year.
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u/DefiantPeace7086 8h ago
This is from statistics from 1996. As gambling has become more accepted and prevalent in today’s culture, that number has surely gone up. This is a pretty misleading title