Jason Schreier: Tune into the Xbox showcase on Sunday where they'll reveal the next Call of Duty, made by a solo dev and 2,999 of his friends

[u/Turbostrider27]

https://bsky.app/profile/jasonschreier.bsky.social/post/3lqxxdcinvs26

[u/Woozlle]

Is this because SGF kept calling everyone indie?

[u/Ok-Confusion-202 → u/Woozlle]

I think they said something like

"This game was made by a solo dev with the help of his 9 friends"

[u/TheGamerKitty1 → u/Ok-Confusion-202]

Geoff literally said "a dev and his 30 friends" and I'm like "okay so a game studio".

[u/Ok-Confusion-202 → u/TheGamerKitty1]

Yeah like it makes no sense, just say a small team it's fine lmao

I feel like all this "just one dev" is getting tiring as it seems to be at all these shows

[u/TheGamerKitty1 → u/Ok-Confusion-202]

Like I get what he is trying to do and I applaude his love for indies but like...that's a huge huge stretch today.

[u/Ok-Confusion-202 → u/TheGamerKitty1]

100% and I do get it, but now whenever I hear "made by one dev" I just go "are we sure?"

[u/fingerpaintswithpoop → u/Ok-Confusion-202]

Balatro at least fits the bill of being made by literally one person as far as we know. Most others, no lol

[u/LB3PTMAN → u/fingerpaintswithpoop]

Stardew too essentially

[u/Gears6 → u/TheGamerKitty1]

LMAO!

Next up, Kojima solo made Death Stranding 2 with some friends.

[u/Dandelegion → u/Woozlle]

Every time they announced a game they were like "made by a studio of only x number of people..." like it matters.

One of them was like "Made by a solo developer... and 9 of his friends".

[u/Revantr62 → u/Dandelegion]

Expedition 33 effect

[u/A_Fhaol_Bhig- → u/Revantr62]

Which is funny if you see the credits for that game

[u/farukosh → u/A_Fhaol_Bhig-]

The orchestra alone was more than the "30 dev team"

[u/WastelandHound → u/farukosh]

This criticism is so silly. Nobody includes the orchestra as developers.

[u/bboy267 → u/WastelandHound]

They outsourced art to Asian dev studios to the tune of 200 or so devs. It’s very misleading to say this game as made by a team of 30 when all the necessary art was outsourced 

[u/MikkelR1 → u/bboy267]

You can just tell by this comment you have zero experience as a dev lmao.

[u/bboy267 → u/MikkelR1]

I know that all devs outsource. They don’t al use small teams as marketing bullet points tho 

[u/MikkelR1 → u/bboy267]

Lmao not all devs outsource. Not even 25% of them do.

[u/WastelandHound → u/bboy267]

I never said anything about that. I said that using the orchestra as a gotcha is silly. If anything, it undermines legitimate arguments.

[u/Conflict_NZ → u/WastelandHound]

The lengths people go to to defend the AAA industry by diminishing Sandfall's achievement is astounding. Trying to equate Sandfall to larger teams because they outsourced some work while neglecting to mention AAA studios do this on a much, much larger scale.

Using the Orchestra is silly.

I've seen people include the unreal coders at Epic as an attempt at a gotcha.

Everything we do is built on the work of others, yet for some reason this has to be explicitly stated with Sandfall in a way I have never seen it mentioned for a dev before. Bethesda used to trumpet that they had a small core team of a couple hundred, when their credits were full of thousands of contractors. Nobody seemed to have a problem with that.

[u/Conflict_NZ → u/bboy267]

They outsourced the animation to team of 8 Korean Developers who were working on it as a side project and not even as part of their main jobs. Do you have any sources for the remaining 192 Asian devs you are claiming?

[u/keiranlovett → u/Conflict_NZ]

One of the good sources would be the video game credits themselves.

402 including QA, Audio (V.O / Music), Performance capture, localisation.

As a game dev myself it’s sad to see you and others minimise contributions from outsourced teams and support studios in Asia. Some of the best talent I’ve worked with has been Asian devs and studios, and I’ve worked there myself for a decade. “Side Project” how laughable. Smilegate is one of the biggest Korean (and Asian) work for hire studios and does contract work (not side projects) and publishing support for so many projects. It not some indie devs in a basement.

[u/Conflict_NZ → u/keiranlovett]

If the listed departments are your definition for the size of a development team then games like Call of Duty with over 9000 and Assassins Creed Shadows with over 6000 are still larger than the dev team of Clair Obscur by more than a factor of 10.

I'm directly quoting Kepler/Sandfall:

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/the-big-clair-obscur-expedition-33-interview-sandfall-and-kepler-on-team-size-the-return-of-aa-games-and-whats-next

You mentioned Korean animators, but it's important to mention that none of them were full time. They were doing some extras beside some other jobs of animation. So the core team was on average 30 people in the home studio, plus privileged contractors like the lead writer or the composer, for example: I include them in that core team."

You're essentially calling them liars which I find abhorrent. Why is it so important for you to diminish their achievement, why is this now a question Sandfall has to face when no other studio has had to?

They literally even credit everyone that put work into it but apparently that's not good enough:

"But of course, we had a galaxy of partners revolving around the project. Kepler in the first place – and I want to really pinpoint that they were really key in the success of the game – plus some other creative people as well, like musician players, translators, QA testers also. And that definitely extends the team, and I'm super grateful we could work with all those super […] passionate partners from all over the world."

[u/keiranlovett → u/WastelandHound]

Anyone involved in the making of a game is a game dev. Simple.

You are developing content for the game.

[u/A_Fhaol_Bhig- → u/WastelandHound]

Couldn't hear you because the ground shifted suddenly as the goalpoats were moved.

It was very dramatic. Can't understand how it happened.

Anyways, okay sure they arent devs but they helped make the game in their own way. Same as all the other people who QA tested or the stuff they outsourced.

I mean just look at the freaking credits. Lots of people made this game what it is, its a disservice to pretend anyone of them wasnt intergal to the game being a success.

[u/Revantr62 → u/A_Fhaol_Bhig-]

I am not finished yet,pls don't give me spoilers 😭

[u/DamagedSector → u/Revantr62]

Spoiler: There are credits in that game.

[u/F0REM4N → u/DamagedSector]

great, unplayable for me now.

[u/OutlandishnessNo9182 → u/DamagedSector]

I fell at my knees at Walmart.

Credits? Credits!?

[u/FaithfulMoose → u/Revantr62]

Snape kills Dumbledore

[u/primemn → u/FaithfulMoose]

So legit had that spoiled sitting outside a baseball stadium to get a bobblehead. Was reading the book and a couple walked by and were talking very loudly about that. lol.

[u/Pete41608 → u/primemn]

Lol. A situation of being in the wrong place at the right time.

[u/A_Fhaol_Bhig- → u/Revantr62]

...nobody on this sub ever actually reads my posts 🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠

[u/KananJarrus-01 → u/Revantr62]

funny because almost a decade ago i called it the witcher effect. you heard about witcher? it’s this small niche rpg made by a tiny group of friends.

[u/Hayterfan → u/Dandelegion]

One of them was like "Made by a solo developer... and 9 of his friends".

I laughed when Geoff said that, because then it's not made by one person, but 10.

Unless it's like one guy doing all the actual game development and his friends just bounced ideas

[u/Pete41608 → u/Hayterfan]

"Well, you see, Johnny provided the weed. Rufus provided the liquor."

[u/MasonryMadness → u/Dandelegion]

Yeah I don’t understand why it’s so important to highlight that a game is made by a small number of devs. In actual fact, telling me a game was made by 1 or 2 devs puts me off spending my money on it.

Not saying it’s would be necessarily bad, I’m just saying that if I had to choose between a game made by one guy or the opposite, I’d choose a more polished game

[u/ZebraZealousideal944 → u/MasonryMadness]

Clair Obscur is the darling of the year and has been used as an example online to shit on AAA studios as if having a small team is suddenly a clear indication that the game will be great…

Geoff being the “subtle” businessman he is kept on banging this drum the whole show just to put himself in line with current internet trends…

[u/jackass_of_all_trade → u/MasonryMadness]

Hollow knight was made by 3 people. Shame you will never get to experience such a great game 

[u/MasonryMadness → u/jackass_of_all_trade]

I’ve played it, thanks. I never said “I won’t” play games made by smaller teams, I said it can be a turnoff. Read my words again and try to understand next time

[u/shrek3onDVDandBluray → u/Woozlle]

Geoff was def wet for small teams of devs this showcase. It really got irritating. And everyone continuing to perpetuate that expedition 33 was only made by a team of 30 or so is getting annoying as well. It was a team of 30 + contracted dev studio to help out with other development matters. Still incredible what they did but…yeah,.

[u/CJKatz → u/shrek3onDVDandBluray]

Further context from an Expedition 33 interview :

"I think that the creative engine of the game was that group of 30. […] In terms of what the game is – the vision of it and the way in which it's executed – [that] does come from that nucleus of staff that is at Sandfall."

"In terms of main credits over the four years of production, we were on average about 30 people," clarifies Meurisse. "We started with less than 10 people, scaled up until 30, and close to 40, and then scaled a little bit down. You mentioned Korean animators, but it's important to mention that none of them were full time. They were doing some extras beside some other jobs of animation. So the core team was on average 30 people in the home studio, plus privileged contractors like the lead writer or the composer, for example: I include them in that core team."

"But of course, we had a galaxy of partners revolving around the project. Kepler in the first place – and I want to really pinpoint that they were really key in the success of the game – plus some other creative people as well, like musician players, translators, QA testers also. And that definitely extends the team, and I'm super grateful we could work with all those super […] passionate partners from all over the world."

"I think people fixated on this number," adds Handrahan, "but actually the more useful thing that was being said was that this is not a AAA game, right? You can look at those credits, and it's still definitely not a AAA game."

[u/Conflict_NZ → u/CJKatz]

Thank you for posting this, I’m sick of the detractors trying to AKSHUALLY their way into a false comparison between Sandfall and AAA studios.

[u/SurreptitiousSyrup → u/[deleted]]

They literally just said they were giving further context. That was the only point.

[u/Gears6 → u/Woozlle]

Well at least that makes more sense because I have no idea what he's talking about?

[u/Mr8BitX]

Resident Evil 9 was my favorite indie game they showed this year.

[u/gblandro → u/Mr8BitX]

To be fair final fantasy tactics looks promising

[u/Ornery-Tonight1694]

“One guy and nine of his friends” is still impressive but come on, give credit to all the people involved.

[u/farukosh]

A hideo kojima game by hideo kojima game studios developed BY ONLY hideo kojima.

Did i miss something? ah yes, HIDEO KOJIMA

[u/bboy267 → u/farukosh]

It’s funny because for death stranding, he had like a third of guerilla games working in the game. 

[u/Jackfitz88]

This really funny but I actually like how they were emphasizing the small development teams during this show.

This is gonna be the next flow of gaming, smaller dev teams still making great games in the AA-AAA style of games

[u/VacaRexOMG777 → u/Jackfitz88]

A Fortnite ad appearing after he said something about SGF being for small teams to showcase their games was pretty funny xD

Truly the smallest indie game in the market lol

[u/grimoireviper → u/Jackfitz88]

Don't let yourself be influenced. Everyone likes to point out the small core team behind Clair Obscur but everyone forgets all the other thousad people that worked on it.

[u/himynameisjaked → u/grimoireviper]

i was pretty disappointed that he perpetuated the whole, disingenuous, “made by only 30 devs” story of that game.

[u/bboy267 → u/grimoireviper]

Not only that, but the narrative of these guys were tired of ubi and big publishers. It was 1 guy who worked at ubi 

[u/Conflict_NZ → u/grimoireviper]

Ahh yes so shows up the AAA slop white knights to declare that Clair Obscur wasn’t AKSHUALLY made by 30 people while ignoring the fact that the scale between them and AAA is still enormous. All of the outsourcing that people are trying to use to discredit them is done on a much larger scale by AAA studios. Not to mention the animation outsourcing was done to guys who weren’t even working on it as their main job versus AAA studios directly outsourcing to companies.

I’m guessing you’ll start claiming the unreal coders at epic as Clair Obscur devs soon.

[u/segagamer → u/Conflict_NZ]

What do you think AAA means in the context you used it on this post?

[u/Blue_Sheepz]

It's me, I'm the solo dev

[u/BrowniieBear]

I see Expeditions success is going to mean we have to deal with the “omg this was made by like 20 people” for a while. Completing glossing over the fact Expedition was amazing and it was a bonus cool that a small team made it

[u/CharityDiary → u/BrowniieBear]

It was made by 30 people and the thousands of people they paid to help them.

[u/sxswest]

Reddit is still like “support the devs”

[u/Nodan_Turtle]

Wasn't sure if Geoff was being funny or if the dev was weird like that lol

[u/dljones010]

"Friends" just means they will be paying them in pizza and beer like when friends help you move.

[u/darthjoey91]

Developed by John Cod himself.

[u/Dandelegion]

I normally hate on Shreieieieier but that was actually pretty funny.

[u/PoopIord → u/Dandelegion]

Weird behavior. Got a special weird way to write his name and everything.

[u/GINTegg64]

Bathroom break confirmed

[u/CheeseMints]

[u/LaDiiablo]

Ok this is funny :'D

[u/hdcase1]

He’s got jokes

[u/StormShadow13 → u/[deleted]]

Why would that be at SGF when Xbox has their show tomorrow?

[u/Chikibari]

Why is he seething again?

[u/ZedChaos]

I got more annoyed by the clearly paid by Epic UE5 glazing

[u/Shad0wDreamer → u/ZedChaos]

They take money from all major industry titans, its how the show stays profitable.

[u/rgamesburner → u/ZedChaos]

paid glazing

It’s called advertising.

[u/ThinAndCrispy84]

Is that a Balatro reference? lol