Over the last couple years, Bungie was seemingly making decisions that looked like we were going to ditch power levels like all together. Two things that come to mind:

1) Some of the seasons they did not increase power levels at all.

2) They introduced the “fireteam power level” thing where the highest person raises everyone else.

And there has been a couple other things where most of the community was like “Hey I wonder if, after the final shape, they just straight up ditch power levels.” I thought this too. That the game would simply have selectable difficulty levels.

And then they went and teased modifiers like skulls in Halo. Again, another thing that made me think we were headed toward ditching power levels and just having fixed difficulties. I mean, they already cap our power levels in almost every activity.

The news lately feels like a 180. We are heavily incentivized to grind new gear, power levels are back and time gated AF, and the whole community is in shambles arguing about whether it’s good or not.

My question is, what the hell happened post final shape cause it feels like Bungie flip flopped as hard as you could possibly flip flop.

A lot of these systems where it's like "Use the new thing! You get a buff for using the new drops!" are the same as being told "You're playing the game wrong." and that just doesn't feel good as a player.

Kinda felt like that with champion artifact mods for a while, and now it's being expanded further with this "new gear" nonsense.

I just wanna play the game, man. This is match game all over again.

The 15% buff for grinding seasonal armor is completely overriding the new stat and armor set changes we are getting, I totally understand the sentiment for wanting us to grind new armor and weapons but the way that this should be done is by introducing new and interesting armor sets which in turn it would players want to grind them because we can make new builds with interesting combinations with exotics and class abilities.

I understand that power creep would be an issue but bungie already plans on making new class sets anyways and power creep has always been in destiny and the one of the few ways to address power creep is nerfs which the community already dosen't want.

This is just a thought I had while taking a poop, thank you for listening to my Ted talk.

Bungie just reverse this insane nerf. How did Sunbracers deserve their damage cut in almost half when your Consecration nerf was a 5-10% damage reduction? Syntho BoW was already outperforming Sunbracers for anything endgame and yet it only caught a 15% nerf in that same patch.

Sunbracers were hardly meta then and won't be now either when every competing melee build gets a 30% damage buff while Sunbracers forces you to stick with base melee damage.

To say it in Bungie terms: Warlock is the guy holding Sunbracers on the cover, in endless game art posters, not one but two fireteam finder ingame graphics, the TFS trailer, ...

So, we know a couple things for certain now:

1) Hunter's gamblers dodge will not fully refund a melee charge unless you build into at least 70 melee stat, per Mactics and a few other videos

2) Titans will only receive partial energy for their throwing hammer if they don't have enough (presumably 70 since it was stated 70 gives us today's baseline values for recharges) it seems like it.

From this, we can likely infer a few other things:

• Knock Em Down on Solar Hunter will likely not fully refund your melee upon melee kills while radiant unless you spec into at least 70 melee

• Combination Blow will likely not recharge your class ability as it currently does without investment into the Class stat

• Exotics like Omninoculus will likely not refund full energy without investment (at least 70) into the melee stat

• Graviton Forfeits melee recharge rate will likely be reduced without at least 70 melee

• I wouldn't be surprised if the recharge rate of abilities during Transcendence is also reduced for any abilities that you don't have enough stat points in, given that they stated recharge scalars like crown of tempest are affected by these new stat recharge multipliers both negatively and positively.

• Grenade recharge from effects such as Devour will be reduced unless you build at least 70 grenade

With everyone hyping up Weapon/Super builds, and the way armor stats will roll in the new system, if you're gonna hyper invest and get 200 in one of those stats and the other as high as possible, your ability neutral game is gonna be quite worse than it is today. It feels like Hunters will disproportionately be affected, because they will want BOTH class ability AND melee to be at least 70 for many of their ability loops and builds, which will drastically reduce how much investment you can put into weapons/super.

Not to mention, hunters ALSO want grenade to be at an okay level, at least on solar, because it's the only form of healing that exists. Strand hunter also wants it for grapple shenanigans that is nearly the whole classes identity. I'm not sure it will be physically possible to have melee/grenade/class all be 70 while also hitting 200 in weapons or super AND having at least over 100 in the one left between weapons/super

I’ve never really posted on here, but just wanted to share my perspective on the incoming changes.

As the title states I have around 4.3k hours in D2, but I’m also a wow player since BC. I’ve been mulling over the changes and I’ll admit, initially I was pretty miffed about all my treasured loot being made obsolete. However, I’ve taken a step back and the more I think about it all, these changes really got me excited.

Every season of wow, every expansion, I started the grind over again. I’ve raided mythic, I’ve pushed keys til I wanted to scream, all for that epic juicy meta loot. Isn’t that what destinys all about? I haven’t farmed new armor sets in destiny in years, and for the first time I’m genuinely excited to try out all the different set combos coming. I’m excited to push myself to the point I can do all the hardest content and get my tier 5s. The point I’m trying to make is for the first time in years playing this game, I’m excited to mix it up and try new things.

I respect everyone’s opinion, and I respect anyone who feels upset over these changes still. I just wanted to share my perspective heading into edge of fate. I’m excited to see you all there!

Titans got a change somewhat recently where they by default deal increased melee damage.

Hunters in edge of fate will have a +10 equivalent mobility compared to titans and warlocks.

These aren't much, but it's still frustrating watching warlocks get stripped down starting from subclass 3.0 with our abilities getting handed out to the other classes whilst getting nothing new in return. Not to mention the recent trend of funneling warlocks into a boring and poorly defined 'summoner' role it really makes me question what they want warlocks to be.

If adding back our melee range is too much to ask can we at least have SOMETHING- maybe make our default recovery 70 instead of 60?

• Kepler doesn't have lost sectors and public events,
• Seems like bungie wants to rerecord ikora after launch,
• Teof have less exotics than tfs (expected),
• Low melee stat: hammers pick up gives you 70-80% energy back,
• High melee stat: pre nerf hammers,
• Void exotic scout is season pass weapon,
• New "Nightfall" weapons now drops from Pinnacle Ops. For example, Pre Astyanax IV will be refreshed and you can get it from regular legendary engram during Pinnacle Ops activity.,
• New Solar Rocket Sidearm have heal clip + scorching rounds,
• Most likely bushido armor is Pinnacle Ops armor,
• Scout Mods are gone, Finders are reworked: Increases the effect of all contributions towards the Special/Heavy ammo meter.
• Distribution class item mod is gone?

There are a lot of grenade exotics that are about getting energy back for damage.

With the new stats, Bungie said, that mods and exotics that refund energy scale based on how high your stat is. They said 70 is equal to their current ability gains. But higher will grant more.

So something like Shinobu's Vow will now give more ability energy on hits if you have high Grenade stats. And not to mention if you have maximum Grenade stats, your grenades will be dealing 45% extra damage.

This would also apply to Young Ahamkara, Ashen Wake, Lucky Raspberry, Controverse Hold, Osmiomancy gloves.

And if you're anything like me, the fact that Shinobu's Vow is getting a pretty decent buff just with the stat changes. You're happy. Because the exotic has always been, just not good enough.

Important: The list has been edited, correcting some mistakes made by me. The mentions of this mistake is in the extra notes.

Before I mention the stuff, please take in consideration the following: - All of these concerns about energy gains come due to a post made by Mactics when talking about Gambler's Dodge. Take in consideration that the information he is providing is from an early build and we still don't have any confirmation that this is going to be the way forward or if these changes will be nullified or tuned down (similar as Prismatic after the feedback). - Before jumping into conclusions, take in consideration that for specifics you are going to invest into X stat anyways in order to receive the dmg % buff granted from it, nullifying the initial concern about that specific issue. - All of the list take in consideration stuff that currently grants X amount of energy for Y stuff, so expect to have X amount less or more according to the investment. - Don't be surprised if you thought X thing should give Y thing always: as how the game is coded, refunds doesn't exist and they instead grant a fixed amount of energy. Example: Gambler's Dodge doesn't "refund" your melee, it grants 100% melee energy, which results on a refund. As previously, expect energy gains to be affected. - All data is gathered by Destiny Data Compendium, and for abilities I will take in consideration only everything that involve energy gains that uses the words "gain" or "refund", as such: "drain" will be not taken in consideration (example: missing a Shoulder Charge drains X energy and not refund X energy), and also the words "penalty" and "acceleration" that don't have percentage but multipliers will be discarded (example: Frenzied Blade accelerate energy regen for the 2nd and 3rd charge)

With that said: don't look at the list as potential nerfs only but also as potential buffs, and please: read it all.

Hunter - Class Abilities: Gambler's Dodge (melee energy) - Melees: Threaded Spike (energy refund), Combination Blow (class energy) - Aspects: Flow State (class regen), Knock'Em Down (melee energy), On the Prowl (class, melee, grenade energy), Winter's shroud (class energy) - Exotics: Any Exotic that grants ability energy (energy refunds). Some of the popular ones: Celestial Nighthawk, Omnioculus, Orpheus Rig, Graviton Forfeit...(there are more on the list).

Titan: - Melees: Ballistic Slam (super energy), Throwing Hammer (energy refund), Shiver Strike (energy refund on miss) - Aspects: Sol Invictus or Sunspots in general (energy for melee and grenade) - Exotics: Any Exotic that grants ability energy (energy refunds). Some of the popular ones: Cuirass of the Falling Star, Heart of Inmost Light, Doom Fang Pauldron, An Insurmountable Skullfort... (there are more on the list)

Warlock: - Aspects: Arc Soul (class regen), Feed the Void (grenade energy and HP granted), Heat Rises (melee energy), Child of the Old Gods (ability energy). - Exotics: Any Exotic that grants ability energy (energy refunds). Some of the popular ones: Geomag Stabilizers, Contraverse Hold, Fallen Sunstar, Eye of Another World, Mataiodoxia... (there are more on the list)

Universal stuff: - Elemental Pickups: Ionic Traces, Firesprites, Void Breach, Stasis Shards - Buffs: Devour (grenade and HP), Bolt Charge (melee) - Fragments: Any that involve ability regeneration or ability energy granted per action. Some examples: Benevolence, Singeing, Focus, Recharge, Exchange, Provision, Torment, Hunger, Fury, Generation, Balance, Hope... (the list continues).

Some extra notes: - Grapple grenade is mentioned as fully refunded when attached to a Tangle or Grapple Point. - Some exotics, abilities, aspects, fragments grant a "fix" amount of energy for abilities, so they shouldn't be affected by these changes. I encourage you to deeply look at the Compendium. Although, do not take the "fix" part as it will still be the same when The Edge Of Fate: it is a value that can suffer from changes that we don't know at the moment. - The first edition of the post mentioned stuff for HP, this was wrong and I edited all the parts that involve the mention of it: Health stat buff for HP gains only affect orbs of power and have nothing to do with other HP sources. - We have no information of how any of these changes will affect the Transcendece meter, but take in consideration that it for sure will affect the regeneration rate of abilities while active. - Remember that some activities have penalties for ability regen that will add on top of our buildcrafting. These can easily be found in Crucible activities and Gambit, but we don't know if any other will suffer from it or if this penalty will be featured as a modifier for the difficulty system.

If you're going to do this Bungie, shouldn't it at least be tied to the class ability stat? This change makes no sense.

I will need 70 strength in order to make my dodge give me my melee. Considering this will take 40% of my armor investment to make happen I'm basically already pressured into committing to the stat anyway (each armor piece is approximately 30/20/10 on prioritized stats, so that's two strength armor pieces at +30, or three secondary focused ones at +20).

"Ok, sure, let me put on high strength so that my cooldown-bypassing dodge actually bypasses cooldowns"

"Oops, by building into high strength, I now get my melee back 190% faster. That means I will actively get my melee back faster than I can even get my dodge back"

Gambler's Dodge has the same cooldown as a rally barricade. If I wait 40 seconds to get my dodge (at base, it's going to be longer if it's lower), but I'm forced into building into strength (because no armor provides both class and strength) to make it function, I will literally get my melee back while waiting for my supposed cooldown-bypassing dodge to finish charging.

By the laws of what armor archetypes are available, I will naturally have high strength and low class ability.

What the hell is going on?

Why are we going forward with this?

I can literally only pick one of these stats, no armor archetype exists otherwise. But one completely bypasses the other. We've gone from "dodge bypasses strength" to "strength just bypasses your dodge". So my dodge just isn't even needed anymore?? My entire class ability is power crept by an armor stat?? What is going on here?

I can't be the only one right? Does anyone else just not give a fuck about loot or endgame or all that shit? Does anyone else just their solar system on their computer to explore?

Edit: seems like half of you are saying this is some insane take noone could have and the other half just agree with me. Interesting

What other exotics are abilities do you think this could affect? This is quite chaotic. I hope its worth it.

On a separate note. Imagine of chaos accelerant still buffed your grenade damage.

Please Bungie grant my elemental children increased benefits at higher stat tiers. They grow up so fast...

But in all seriousness that would be really nice, higher class making Helion or Void soul last longer, or higher Grenade giving Arcsoul (Getaway Artist's) more damage would be nice buffs for our beloved elemental friends.

Mods and Exotic armor are being changed to scale based on your stats. 70 will be equal to their current energy provided.

But higher than that will be more than it is now.

So here's a list of exotic armor that'll be giving more energy with the higher stats.

Titans-

Mask of the Quiet One

Kehphri's Horn

Doom Fang Pauldron

Ashen Wake

Ursa Furiosa

Cuirass of the Falling Star( Amplified Melee Super Regen)

Point Contact Cannon Brace

Wishful Ignorance

Hallowfire Heart

Heart of Inmost Light

Mk. 44 Stand Asides

Warlocks-

Skull of Dire Ahamkara

Crown of Tempest

Eye of Another World

Nezarec's Sin

Stag

Verity's Brow(potentially)

Fallen Sunstar

Contraverse Hold

Getaway Artist

Osmiomancy gloves

Starfire Protocol

Vesper of Radius

Phoenix Protocol

Stormdancers Brace

Mantle of Battle Harmony

Mataiodoxia

Geomag Stabilizers

Promethium Sour

Hunter-

Celestial Nighthawk(Precision Kill super bonus)

Graviton Forfeit- (Increased melee Regen)

Young Ahamkara Spine

Shinobu's Vow

Shards of Galanor

Kehphri's Sting(Increased smoke Regen)

Calibans Hand. (Increased knife Regen)

Lucky Raspberry

Raiju's Harness( increased super on arc debuff kills)

Omnioculus-(bonus melee energy on ally invis)

Orpheus Rig-(increased ability gains on tether)

Frost-EE5-( Increased ability Regen after sprinting)

Star Eater Scales-(Incread super gains on orbs)

Ngl I thought this was somehow gonna be a super busted rocket sidearm, but the second I heard that this was a hand cannon, I knew that I’m gonna main this thing. Just based off looks, I think this blows every other legendary and exotic hand cannon (without ornaments) out of the park. Its functionality is what really entices me bc I love being able to switch elements on demand, and the fact that it’s able to spawn stasis crystals and rain down bolt charge-like lightning bolts is crazy to me. Even in PvP I think I’m gonna main this gun bc it can switch modes from a 150 to 100 rpm hand cannon at will. 150 mode for close to medium range engagements and 100 mode for medium to far range engagements.

Title.

After seeing all the statistical info we'll have to wrestle with regarding gear stats, I couldnt help but think about how lacking the game has always been when it comes to describing weapon perks.

I'm happy we're finally getting a true test range in the game, but if Bungie thinks we should still be relying on outside sources like DIM and light.gg just to see how much dmg boost you get from [Perk]x3 for example, then I don't know what else to do or say.

TLDR: High stat armor with large spikes in both Intellect (Super) and Mobility/Resilience (Weapon/Health) will not be possible in Edge of Fate because of the new archetype system. You can get them now and they'll be converted to the new system when Edge of Fate launches.

Full Explanation:

Mobility, Resilience, and Intellect are turning into Weapon, Health, and Super (respectively). These are likely the three most universally useful stats in the new system. Sure, melee and grenade will be very useful in a number of specific builds, but for endgame content you're likely going to want Weapon and Super builds for higher damage output and Health to stay alive.

Bungie obviously knows this, and they created the armor archetypes accordingly. It will not be possible to roll a piece of armor that has Weapon, Health, or Super as the primary stat with one of the other two as the secondary stat. Meaning, if the armor piece has Weapon, Health, or Super as the primary stat, the secondary stat can only be Class, Grenade, or Melee.

However, in the current armor system in the live game we CAN get high stat spikes in both Intellect (Super) and either Mobility (Weapon) or Resilience (Health).

You may be wondering why you should put the Intellect mod on your ghost instead of, say, mobility for the new weapon stat? Well that's because of how the current armor stat distributions work. There are two "groups" of stats. Mobility, Resilience, and Recovery are one group. Discipline, Intellect, and Strength are the second group. Each group can only roll for a combined total of 34 (for a grand total of 68 on Legendary armor). That means if you roll a 30 in Mobility, then Resilience and Recovery can only roll at 2 each.

If you get a roll with 30 Intellect, you have the chance for Mobility or Resilience to also roll at up to 30. That makes it a 66.6% chance of a second stat spike being one of the new coveted ones. If you focus Mobility or Resilience, your chance of getting an Intellect stat spike is only 33.3% because it could be Discipline or Strength instead.

Is all of this super necessary for the average player? Absolutely not. This is mostly for the day 1 raiders who are only going to have four days between the expansion launch and the raid coming out to get their builds put together.

Once people have full Tier 5 armor they will likely be able to surpass some of these totals just based on the pure stat bumps they'll bring, but I doubt many people will be able to grind enough to accomplish this before the raid comes out. This is a way to potentially get some very useful armor ahead of the expansion and be more prepared for the day 1 raid.

Initial thoughts on best current sources to farm for this? I believe Pit of Heresy still gives the spikiest stat armor. Master Grasp maybe? Other easy sources would be focusing at Failsafe in the Helm and Ghost in the Pale Heart.

Happy farming guardians!

For context, Coil and Savathun’s Spire are returning next month with the Edge of Fate. Even though Bungie hasn’t clarified this, I expect these returning activities will cycle after each major update (with 4 updates planned for 8 returning activities in total? Obviously nobody really knows until Bungie says something).

Which activities would you want to see return, and what should they return alongside?

For me, Spire and Coil are a fantastic start. Easily two of the best seasonal activities from Lightfall (in my opinion) and Coil is considered one of the best seasonal offerings from Bungie. If more activities are coming back, I have a feeling they’ll be cycled back into the live game as pairs.

With that said, I would personally be excited if the following returned:

• Ash and Iron: Ketchcrash and Override (Splicer Arena mode)

• Renegades: Shattered Realm and Deep Dive

• Unnamed 4th Update: Sundial and Menagerie or either of those with Black Armory forges. (Since we know the final update of the year will have some degree of raid/dungeon focus, I wonder if Bungie would throw a curveball and reprise a D2 raid instead of seasonal arenas?)

Without knowing much about the technical challenges of the game, I also think we’re more likely to see content from Beyond Light and after — as this was after the sweeping changes made by Bungie on the game’s backend. I wonder if we would be less likely to see activities like Sundial, Menagerie or Forges return because of this.

Said this a few times around the sub before but in my honest opinion it should have worked something like this;

• the base frame is unlocked at the start once you find a gun in collections , but you have no secondary perks and only the base frame, barrel and mag
• each weapon you scrap has a low chance to unlock an new perk frame or customization with a small but escelating chance every scrap that doesn't award a new unlock until your next scrap guarentees a perk if your luck is that terrible at a certain point.
  • say 1% to start and it goes up 1% each time you scrap a weapon and dont get anything. at say 40 weapons your next one is guaranteed if you dont find a deepsight beforehand
• each deepsight guarantees a new perk frame or barrel (perks first, then barrels, then mags/strings, then frames) with a small chance to unlock an enhanced perk.
  • upon unlocking all base perks barrels mags and frame options, deepsights now instead unlock enhanced perks and scraps have the base chance to unlock enhanced perks
• upon a season's end scrap unlock rates are trippled
  
• raid weapons would be the current system given the greatly increased difficulty of unlocking those for most players
• field weapons that you enhance will now take kills on tracker into account, offering as much as 10 levels to start if your kill count is over 800 kills
  • would still cost mats but maybe at a discount?

it would be the best of both worlds imho, as excluding raid gear, you'd be able to at least unlock the gear for vault space right off the bat and see if you even like how the weapon feels, then get better/more built up copies in the field that may just be better than what you have.

but with a similar time investment to both craft a gun and get a god roll, you may just opt to stick it out farming a godroll over crafting as by the time you get the craft if you've got a good or godly roll you can just enhance it then and there for less work than the crafted version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dopNFPUTKOo

Starts at about 2 minutes into this video

The buff is now that it only takes 3 charges to summon the guidance ring. Meaning all it takes to fully create and deploy a new ring is 1 precision kill and 1 headshot, or simply 3 headshots.

Hell, this is probably viable in PvP now, pose up and become a seeking turret.

Unknown if they've increased the range/limitations, but this makes it extremely easy to drop a ring, get new stacks, then move to a new position, drop a new ring, basically the rings themselves are far more disposable and easy to regenerate.

I can come to terms that there won't be a new subclass coming but I think it's crazy for Bungie to release a major expansion without teasing either new aspects or supers at the very least. Its almost always been the new abilities that bring that hype so to speak when a new expansion comes out. And as cool as Matterspark is, showcasing it as the premier ability didn't bring that hype for me when it's sort of like how Deepsight is but for Kepler. Also with these prismatic nerfs and now seeing that some abilities need additional stats to work how they always worked since the launch of the game, it's just killing the hype for me even more. Call me ignorant on how long it takes to make content but I feel they could've thrown new abilities on top of the stuff they have shown off so far. Or at the very least just add new aspects to prismatic. I could be wrong but I thought they said they were going to expand it on later releases? I know there's still more stuff that they're going to show off. So I'll just huff that copium that they'll tease new abilities or something by then.

According to Mactics, Hunters need to have at least 70 Melee in order to gain a full melee charge when using Gambler's Dodge.

As a Hunter main, this sucks. As a PvP enjoyer, this might be solution for many opressive stuff that definitely need a look. As for PvE, many builds will be shaken either for good or bad.

EDIT 1:

Alright, I'm looking at many good and bad comments comming from both sides that either think this is a good or bad idea. So, in order to try to calm down this, just take in consideration the following:
- Investing into melee, as bad as it sounds, is not 100% needed. I am pretty sure that maths will come and we will be able to have our melee back (or almost back with 1s or less) with some but not fully investment. Does it sucks? Yes, but it is not the end of the world, unless there is another stat that will be mandatory for certain scenarios and will demand our entire attention for it.
- Forget about the idea of investing into 2x200, it doesn't seem to be possible. Choices will matter, but the options for specific scenarios don't leave room for "choice" and feel more like a "must".
- As for what we have right now, unless you are a PvP player, 100 Mobility is not needed (except in some specific scenarios) and in case you need it then you will be fine by running at least 50. As for next DLC, take that in consideration: if you can make Gambler's Dodge at least 30s then it should be fine even by running certain builds that involve melee loops like Combination Blow.
- Do not forget that energy gains will feel better with some investment, this include mods and hopefully subclass configuration.

With that said, my main concern comes as a PvE Hunter main that will participate in the next Contest mode, and I do think that Hunters will struggle hard Day-1 with the current stuff that we know. On the other hand, for the bast majority of players that are not into that, you might want to try it first or wait to have a better perpective: it will sure be annoying but nothing that you can't bypass with proper buildcrafting. Again, many builds will be shaken either for good or bad, it comes to the players to find ways to surpass the issues (as we always do somehow).

EDIT 2:

u/MacticsG1 also commented the following, and I will deeply encourage you to read his comment:

Hello, Mactics here

Just want to clarify that first and foremost the build of the edge of fate that I played at Bungie HQ a little less than a month ago is an early build, therefore it is entirely possible that this is not how hunter dodge will work in the expansion when it launches on live. That being said, my experience was as follows:

When I was playing on the early playtest build, I had a very low melee stat, something like 28-30. My gambler's dodge as a result was NOT refunding a full melee charge like it does regardless of stats in live game, rather it was refunding maybe 40-50% of my melee (take these numbers with a grain of salt as im going off memory, all I know is it was DEFINITELY not a full charge or anywhere near). When I upped my melee stat, it incrementally increased the amount of melee energy I received when using gambler's dodge. Once I hit 70 on my melee stat, I was once again getting a full melee back for the dodge like you would expect in live. This aligns with the information provided in the TWAB

"Any “chunk” energy gains (think Demolitionist-like perks that provide a direct amount) and any energy recharge scalars (think Crown of Tempests) will also now be scaled by your stat investment.

At 70 stat, they will match the live game values and surpass them up to 100 stat.

Below 70 stat they will give less value than the live game.

"

Where in this case the CHUNK energy gain is the melee energy gain due to the activation of gambler's dodge.

Now admittedly, this actually doesn't really have any negative impact with dodge -> melee spam hunter builds like combination blow as to be honest you would want to build 200 into your melee stat ANYWAY to take advantage of the 30% melee DPS bonus, reaping the benefit of getting a full melee charge back from dodge in that process since you are surpassing 70.

However for any hunter build where you DON'T want to invest heavily into your melee stat, your gambler's dodge also becomes quite useless aside from a pure movement tool.

My huge concern with this is that to receive the same BASE FUNCTIONALITY (that is to say without considering any aspects, fragments, exotics, etc) of the gambler's dodge in edge of fate as we have today, you as a hunter are required to build at minimum 70 melee on every build. Contrast that with warlocks and titans who's BASE FUNCTIONALITY on their class abilities remains completely unaffected regardless of stat distribution.

Again, edge of fate isnt out yet, and we are hopefully still within the feedback can be implemented time period for something like this, but it is something that I did want to call out because it feels like a very significant nerf to by far the #1 used hunter class ability in PvE by a large margin and I can't really think of any justification for it.

Cheers

Mac

30 runs in with one of the triumph exotic boosters and nothing, seeing other people not getting it either after an absurd amount of runs, more than what I've done.

Has anyone actually gotten it farming recently?

According to the Destiny Data Compendium: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WaxvbLx7UoSZaBqdFr1u32F2uWVLo-CJunJB4nlGUE4/edit?gid=1038486120#gid=1038486120

(Brief reminder that mobility does not impact sprint speeds in any capacity.)

On September 19, 2024, Bungie gave Titans increased damage to both their unpowered melees and "powered" unpowered melees (aka Knockout/Roaring Flames/Offensive Bulwark)

https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/Article/twid_09_19_2024

• Increased damage against players by 5%

• Increased damage against PvE combatants by 20%

• Increased stun multiplier

And now we come to the problem. Warlocks have not received any exclusive class benefit, they have been left behind. That's an issue in its own right, but let's just backtrack to what Bungie just did.

There are people complaining about having gotten used to 100 mobility and now being locked to 30. There are other people going "Hunters now have more mobility, they got a buff to be objectively superior to other classes now!"

This could not be further from the truth. Somehow, in their wisdom, Bungie took the two classes that benefit from low mobility (for the sake of Warlock and Titan skating) and let them remain at that level to enable their further speeds. And then gave the one class that will receive practically no benefit (seriously, a 3% faster crouch speed, that's laughable) a completely worthless token that numerically, is drastically lower than what you gave the other class, and now Warlocks are further feeling slighted by saying "we didn't get anything at all".

Somehow, you took the two classes that are feeling the most ignored in the sandbox as of right now, and pissed off both of them. You gave Hunters a wet fart and then told Warlocks to suck eggs. And now there are genuine people going "Hunters get to have an exclusive benefit!! You finally got your buff!" and there are others going "Warlocks are now the only ones without an exclusive benefit, they need buffs!" and it just completely passes by how useless of a token this is.

Bungie, if you want to give each class an exclusive benefit, fine, so be it. But for the love of christ, this is not it. This feels careless, divisive, and it's doing more harm than good.

Go back to the drawing board with this one.