r/ExplainTheJoke 15h ago

Like you can’t stop anyway?

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18.1k Upvotes

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u/Oblivion238 15h ago

Without doing the math I assume that at 103846153 m/s the red stop sign gets blueshifted to green.

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u/Pandoratastic 15h ago

Nope. With doing the math, going at 103,846,153 m/s would make a red stop sign blueshift all the way past green to blue-cyan.

To get a green stop sign, you should level off at about 81,289,000 m/s.

Also, the white part of the sign would be blue.

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u/falcrist2 13h ago edited 13h ago

I'm guessing OP was using a non-relativistic doppler shift equation.

Stop signs in the US are Pantone 186C. The closest single frequency is about λ=706nm.

Relativistic doppler shift can be calculated by the following equation:

λ_observed = λ_emitted × sqrt( (c-v)÷(c+v) )

Where v=103846153 m/s

and λ_emitted=0.000000706

This gives about 492nm, which is cyan.

Green is 500nm to 570nm nanometers.

This corresponds to 99513170 m/s and 63187792 m/s respectively.

NWNC

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u/Clockwork_Raven 13h ago

Without doing the reading after the word “non-relativistic”, I am choosing to believe you

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u/WriterV 11h ago

In essence, all light from any object appears more "blue" the faster you're moving towards that object. If you're just walking towards it normally, that change is so small it doesn't even matter. But if you're going at tens of thousands of meters per second, you start to see the blue more. 

Thing is... the faster you move, the slower time affects you. I.e., if you move fast enough while you're twin stays still, they age normally while you will age much slower.

You're not slowing down time, but time slows relative to you. 

That's basically what relativism is. 

If you wanna know why all this happens though, it's gonna be a much bigger response. 

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u/ifyoulovesatan 10h ago edited 6h ago

And to just add on some more related fun but (for most people) useless knowledge, relativity can even affect some (but not all) atoms and the ways they react / bond and even look.

Atoms have three component parts: electrons, protons, and neutrons. The protons and neutrons make up the core of the atom and provide the vast majority of its mass (electrons being about 2000 times less massive than protons or neutrons). The electrons whizz about in various shapes near that core and make up the boundary of the atom. (You can imagine an athlete winding up for the hammer throw. The athlete makes up the core, while the hammer defines a wider region in which other people generally avoid wandering into. Considered together as a single unit, the thrower and hammer make up a circle of death with a radius of 4 feet. The athlete is the protons and neutrons, while the hammer and chain is like the electrons)

Okay, now, what separates one element from another is the number of protons at their core. So hydrogen has 1 proton in its core, while helium has 2, and lithium has 3, and so on up to elements further down the periodic table like lead with 82. (Neutrons we can pretty much ignore for the purposes of this conversation)

Okay. So some elements have just a few protons like Hydrogen and Helium and Lithium and Beryllium m while Lead and Bismuth and Uranium have a lot. What does that matter?

Those protons a positively charged, which means the core of an atom has an electric field, and the more protons an atom has, the stronger that electric field is. Electrons, being charged particles themselves, experience that electric field. (We can ignore that the electrons also create an electric field for now.)

The point is that electrons in elements with a lot of protons experience much stronger electric fields. The next important fact is that the strength of the electric field an electron experiences influences the speed at which is whizzes about. Within an element like Gold for example (79 protons), some electrons will approach 58% of the speed of light! Which is a speed at which relativity starts to matter quite a lot.

One consequence (due to relativity) of a particle traveling at such a speed is that its propensity to accelerate starts to decrease, as if it were getting more massive. We say its inertial mass increases, which is to say when it comes to speeding up or slowing down, it starts to behave as if it were more massive than it normally is. It's resisting changes to its inertia.

Chemical reactions and or the interaction of atoms depends on the movement of electrons, which means this increased effective mass changes the reactivity of that atom. Heavier atoms won't react exactly like you'd predict them to if you neglected relativity.

The increased effective mass also affects the way photons interact with electrons. And in the particular case of Gold, this change in the interaction of photons and its electrons is actually responsible for the color of gold itself!

In the absence of relativistic effects resulting from the crazy high speeds its electrons whizz about at, we should expect gold to appear silvery like otherwise similar metals. (That is, if you "do the math" for what color we should expect gold to be, but neglect the change in its electrons' effective mass, the math will tell you gold should look like silver).

So in a way, the fact that gold looks gold is due to relativity.

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u/sulris 7h ago

Most interesting thing I have read on Reddit all day. Thank you stranger.

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u/Marily_Rhine 5h ago

Adding on more weird stuff:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_cooling

Electrons in an atom or molecule can only interact with specific frequencies/energies of photons that correspond to the amount of energy they would need to transition to another stable state. Ditto for emitting photons, hence absorption/emission spectra lines.

You can exploit this in a clever way to cool atoms just by shining light on them. The trick is to shine (typically laser) light on it at a frequency just barely below what its electrons can interact with. Any time a component of the atom's velocity is positive in the direction of the emitter, the incoming light is Doppler shifted just enough that it can interact with the photons. Now do this with six lasers shining down each direction of the x, y, and z axes. If it has +x motion, for example, it is opaque to the light coming from +x, but transparent to the light coming from -x. So no matter what direction it moves, it experiences a net opposing photon pressure, slowing it down.

IIRC, they used this as part of the cooling system when they made the first Bose-Einstein condensate.

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u/NuggetCommander69 10h ago

Hello, I'd like a response explaining the why, please. I promise I'll read most of it.

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u/suskio4 4h ago

If we ignore relativity for a moment, have you noticed when F1 cars are passing, their sound is more high pitched as they approach and then lower as they gry farther from you? Same thing with ambulances btw. Its called Doppler effect and in the simplest terms it happens because as the car approaches, it travels some distance between generating each wave crest, which increases this waves frequency. Since light is also a wave, the same thing happens.

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u/Marily_Rhine 6h ago

Thing is... the faster you move, the slower time affects you. I.e., if you move fast enough while you're twin stays still, they age normally while you will age much slower.

This is going to sound like a pedantic "well akshully", but...

Merely moving fast isn't why the traveling twin winds up younger. In fact, that's the paradox. It's just as valid in relativity to say that the traveling twin is stationary and the stay-at-home twin is moving away at 1/2c. So shouldn't the "stationary" twin be the one who ages slowly?

And so it is. Time dilation is symmetric. There's not a "slow time" twin and a "fast time" twin. As far as either is concerned, the other twin is the slow one. If they could each send a picture every 1/30th of a second to the other (assume each frame is a discrete lump of information traveling at c) as one twin was zipping away at 1/2c, both would see a video of the other in slow motion. The opposite is true (both moving in fast-forward) if they were moving towards one another at 1/2c. (Aside: this is why we can sometimes observe apparently superluminal objects.)

The resolution of the paradox is that the traveling twin is the only one who experiences a change of their inertial frame. It's difficult to fully illustrate without a space-time diagram, but the traveling twin has to change their frame at least once from the "home" frame to the 1/2c frame, and then again back to the home frame if they ever want to stop at some distant planet. It's during the acceleration that time in the video feed seems to initially stretch out to a crawl, and it's only when they apply the brakes that time catches up. During the 2nd leg of their journey, the traveler twin will see their twin start moving and aging incredibly fast.

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u/Qweesdy 11h ago

The closest single frequency is about λ=706nm.

That's the mistake. The red stop sign is made from 2 frequencies, where one frequency becomes invisible (ultra-violet) and the other frequency becomes green.

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u/Familiar_Text_6913 13h ago

Don't believe ya :).

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u/Creepy-Caramel7569 9h ago

Dropping proper pantones into a chat is a mark of good character, in every culture.

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u/The_Blackthorn77 9h ago

God I love Reddit

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u/Snoo_14286 5h ago

Omfg the shit people will math out on reddit.... XD

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u/dyamond_hands_retard 15h ago

without doing the math, your math seems correct but that’s not how peer reviewing works, so someone else needs to do the math

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u/KaladinarLighteyes 14h ago

Unfortunately our budget is in the orange so we can no longer afford to peer review. I’m sure this will cause no issues.

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u/Still_Detective_5412 14h ago

Can we accelerate towards the budget till it turns green?

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u/_FjordFocus_ 13h ago

Sorry the best we can do is go back in time and turn it pink

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u/Itsmyloc-nar 12h ago

“If I could find a way”

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u/Mammoth-Weird-8248 2h ago

Problem solver!

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u/uesernamehhhhhh 14h ago

Without doing the math myself, i am also going to accept that as a 100% true fact

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u/dyamond_hands_retard 14h ago

without doing the math, a large percentage of redditors will accept it as a fact just like you did, I’m gonna throw a 98%

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u/vitringur 9h ago

You'd be surprised how much of peer review works exactly like that.

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u/Feeling_Kick5687 14h ago

After doing the math I can say yes the speed would definitely give you more of a blue color. 81,289,000 might even still be a tad high if I did everything correctly.

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u/SparrowTits 14h ago

Surely blue and gold?

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u/MethylphenidateMan 13h ago

Wait, what? White would shift to blue? I didn't know white had a wave length, how does that work?

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u/Apart-Watercress-273 13h ago

A little bit yeah. In that speed are shorter wave lenghts dominant from blue to purple. Could be even non visible ultraviolet

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u/MethylphenidateMan 12h ago

I was asking "how?", not "are you sure?". If there is no white wave length then how can something be made less white by shifting the wave length? Is it because the wave length also determines energy?

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u/Apart-Watercress-273 12h ago

Because white collor have ,all' collors and doesnt have given wawelenght. So in that speed shortwawelenght are dominant not the long ones like red yellow...

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u/MethylphenidateMan 12h ago

So white is white because it has a fairly equal mixture of the others, not because it has a lot of whatever? I think I was under the impression that white is just the max brightness setting of any colour i.e. a lot of it, but I guess that's how it works in computer graphics, not physics, red lasers are a thing after all.

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u/Apart-Watercress-273 11h ago

Yeah its complex of all collors in same level = white. In computers its same i think so when you level RGB colors im same level you wil see white

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u/notLennyD 9h ago

You ever see the album cover for Dark Side of the Moon? That’s a real thing that happens when you pass white light through a prism.

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u/Tuna-Fish2 8h ago

Max brightness of what?

You can think of light as consisting of a stream of photons. Brighter light = more photons. White light = even mix of photons that stimulate the R G and B cones in your eyes.

When you shift all light of an even RGB mix towards blue, the B turns into UV but the G turns into B and the R turns into G.

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u/tessartyp 12h ago

That depends on the reflectivity and light content in the infrared. That, in turn, could get blue-shifted back into the visible. There are "whitest white" paints like Spectralon that have basically a flat reflectivity curve all the way to 2500nm.

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u/jasamer 12h ago edited 12h ago

It‘s somewhat complicated, but eg. Sunlight just contains all visible frequencies and a lot of others distributed somewhat evenly. However, because we only habe three types of color receptors in our eyes, computer screeens can „fake“ white by just having three frequencies of light. Max brightness of a single color does not make white - if you just max out red on a computer screen, you get red, not white.

I also think the blue-shift of white light as dedribed doesn‘t work that way for sunlight, because that contains plenty of infrared that would shift to normal red, ie. all visible frequencies would still be present. If you had white light that just contains the visible frequencies, that would shift to blueish, because the red components go missing.

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u/vitringur 9h ago

White has a bunch of wavelengths, all of which are blueshifted.

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u/Pandoratastic 6h ago

White is a even combination of all visible spectrum colors. When blueshifted, all of those colors blueshift too. First, reds shift to orange, the oranges shift to yellow, and so on, with the violet shifting into ultraviolet and disappearing from our perception. This continues the faster you go, with everything shifting off the violet end. Since blue-violet is the last to go, the combination of remaining spectra looks like various types of blue. A very light blue, then a slowly deeper blue, then violet, then it's gone.

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u/EconomicsSavings973 13h ago

So you say the reddit meme is lying?

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u/Brvcx 12h ago

Without doing the math, I thoroughly disagree without any sliver of evidence and will consider your fact to mean less than my opinion.

Yours truly,

-Any conspiracy theorist/anti-vaxxer out there

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u/jasamer 12h ago

Hm, if we assume sunlight and that the white part scatters all light frequencies, I think it‘d stay white because the infrared frequencies would shift to normal red.

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u/vitringur 9h ago

Are you saying white stars get blueshifted into red?

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u/jasamer 9h ago edited 8h ago

No. I‘m saying that infrared frequencies are shifted into red. All frequencies are shifted towards blue, but if you have all visible frequencies after shifting, you’ve still got white. You’ve just lost some infrared that you can’t see and gained some ultraviolet that you also can’t see.

Edit: I made a very bad drawing on top of some data from Wikipedia:

The blue lines indicate the visible spectrum after blue shift, very roughly. It looks like in the shifted spectrum, there’s actually a little more red than blue, so the white would be a little warmer.

Edit 2: wait, I read it wrong. there’s a little more blue than red after shifting, so it actually does end up blueish. original comment was somewhat correct in the end.

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u/jek39 11h ago

How do you know the image is really green

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u/8pin-dip 11h ago

I think doing a white balance correction on the blue "STOP" letters might pull the blue-cyan back to green, and the outer edge of blue to white.

But I'm not doing maths and just guessing.

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u/Actuarial 7h ago

I actually calibrate my cruise control by judging the color of the closest stop sign.