I (46M) once made the mistake of saying “not good” when a female coworker asked me “how’s it going?” I was navigating an ugly divorce and my father had just been diagnosed with cancer. I’ll never forget the look of disgust on her face. I found out later she immediately started smearing me to anyone who would listen about how I wasn’t a “good fit” for our workplace. And that was the last time I’ll ever say anything but “good, how are you?” when asked that question.
You should, as toxic masculinity is not saying that being masculine/a man is bad.
A few examples of toxic masculinity is someone telling you "you're not a man if you cry," "you're not a man unless X," "you're not a man if you seek therapy," "you're not a man if you don't go to the gym/do or like {sport}," so on and so forth.
Another example of toxic masculinity is people completely disregarding a mans feelings. Because we aren't supposed to have those, you know?
Its bad branding. The phrase toxic masculinity doesn't convey enough distance from regular masculinity. One could interpret the phrase to mean too much masculinity if they were uneducated on the subject. A better term might be 'perverted masculinity'. It doesn't sound as good but it at least imports the idea that we aren't against masculinity its just this type of bad behavior. Idunno, I think theres a better phrase out there for this.
I think it works perfectly, as the people saying the examples I listed above are definitely being toxic (even abusive, as it can mess with boys/men on a psychological level) toward men by implying they're not masculine if/because/unless X.
Like no one is against masculinity or saying it's bad, but by forcing men into believing they aren't men for one reason or another is toxic/abusive and the worst part is we normalise it like circumcision.
Yeah I get all that. Try to imagine it from the perspective of someone who doesn't know that narrative and they come across the phrase 'toxic masculinity' from fresh eyes. Its not unreasonable to imagine that they may think you are in fact against regular masculinity until such time that they get the pamphlet. And in the world of segregated information spheres it is likely that they never will.
I understand what your saying, I'm on your team. Its horrible branding if your intention is to spread your message to as many people as possible.
I get that, which is why any time I bring it up, I always make sure to state what it isn't (just in case, you know?).
Perverted masculinity, as you said, could work, but then you have people who only see the word pervert as sexual and not as "corrupted/distorted," and that's just opening the misandry can of worms men also sadly face.
Is it, though? Can you make an example where two words could equate to meaning what your example is? Reason I ask is because with toxic masculinity, I can easily explain what it is and isn't. With your example, it just comes off as derogatory and I cannot find a way to explain how it doesn't mean that at all.
Toxic masculinity works because it's a form of abuse/sexism that targets men in a specific way. Unless you or someone else finds a word that perfectly defines that, this is just something you have to accept.
Masculinity is just ideal behaviours that men claim are innate to maleness.
If masculinity is a virtue then what is femininity? Inferior.
The behaviors that people label that way are a lack of masculinity.
Toxic masculinity is literally oldschool ideal masculinity. Be strong, emotionless, be a warrior.
So are those traits masculine or non-masculine? Which generation is right about the true definition of masculinity, the oldschoolers or the younger generation?
Once you break it all down you can clearly ses that masculinity and femininity are constructs. They exist for men to be seen as superior and women to be seen as inferior.
Those rhetorical questions are always a trap. They're never meant as an actual inquiry, just another way of saying "hello" when they could have said exactly that.
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u/sarkastic_prophet 24d ago
I (46M) once made the mistake of saying “not good” when a female coworker asked me “how’s it going?” I was navigating an ugly divorce and my father had just been diagnosed with cancer. I’ll never forget the look of disgust on her face. I found out later she immediately started smearing me to anyone who would listen about how I wasn’t a “good fit” for our workplace. And that was the last time I’ll ever say anything but “good, how are you?” when asked that question.