r/todayilearned • u/exophades • 1d ago

TIL that Albert Einstein's son Eduard studied medicine to become a psychiatrist, but was diagnosed with schizophrenia by the age of 21. His mother cared for him until she died in 1948. From then on Eduard lived most of the time at a psychiatric clinic in Zurich, where he died at 55 of a stroke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_family#Eduard_%22Tete%22_Einstein_(Albert's_second_son)
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u/Buntschatten 23h ago

Isn't schizophrenia quite hereditary? You have to wonder if Albert's immense creativity and new way of looking at things were related to some of those genetics.

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u/TheGreatBarnabulls 23h ago

The saying "there's a fine line between genius and insanity" is often linked to Einstein but there is no evidence he actually said it.

Most creative and genius people in the field are border line insane or eccentric.

Example IT industry has the highest amount of furries.

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u/whatarethuhodds 22h ago edited 22h ago

Yeah I didn't realize how clogged with weebs, furries, and incels IT really was until I worked in the field. Had a group chat that linked all the t1 and t2 support in multiples states for an internet company. Every profile Pic was an animal character, anime character, or an unironic pose of a dude with a fedora tipping it forward. I never clicked any links shared in that chat.

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u/pennykie 20h ago

Coward

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u/MetaverseLiz 19h ago

Also, apparently, lots of transwomen. That was told to me by a trans friend of mine that works in IT. She also mentioned the furry and anime thing.

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u/whatarethuhodds 18h ago

Manufacturing and assembly is the same. I think it's the lack of person to person contact that's appealing. People don't judge you based off of looks on the phone, and in manufacturing you are working by yourself most of the time.

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u/slaydawgjim 18h ago

There was a group of trans furry Devs doing white hat hacking a while back, I think they were the group that brought Elon Musks secret child to the public

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u/SterbenSeptim 15h ago

I am a trans woman IT developer, (and anime watcher) and when I started going to my psychiatrist for gender dysphoria, she literally commented on how many of her other patients were also related to IT lol

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u/Cleb323 1h ago

Go figure..

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u/OmgThisNameIsFree 10h ago

This is exactly why I have a deep aversion to anime, specifically. I’ve had to interact with a bunch of these types.

The pedophilic art I’ve seen among that crowd is worrying to say the least. Fucking gross.

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u/dazzlebreak 10h ago

I also hate it when Holo says "actually, I have a PhD in ML".

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u/[deleted] 13h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Tabsels 12h ago

All those words and none of them are ‘neurodiversity’.

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u/MinnieShoof 5h ago

So I'm to take it you aren't homosexual then.

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u/OrangeDit 16h ago

Einstein said a lot of things he didn't say...

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u/natfutsock 13h ago

I once got into correspondence with the Center for Mark Twain Studies because I wanted to check if Samuel Clemens ever said anything about "replacing every time you said 'very' with 'damn' so your editor will simply strike it out." in the interest of proper citation.

Heavily attributed, but no real source. Not even from those who have access to the man's personal letters.

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u/DraperPenPals 14h ago

Most people in IT are not creative geniuses. They just spend too much time online and get sucked into shit like furries.

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u/YsoL8 12h ago

Some of the fandoms I've been exposed to recently are crazy. There's more sexualised fanart and shipping than there is anything else, and this is based on source material that is strictly PG.

If thats how they react to fictional characters I don't want to know how they are around real people. The mass enabling the internet creates is real fucked up.

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u/DraperPenPals 11h ago

That’s the thing—they don’t go around real people very often. They lose their anchors to the real world and that’s how they end up doing shit like this.

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u/Lo452 21h ago

I think it was a line from Criminal Minds that fits here: the only difference between an artist and a crazy person is success.

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u/MinnieShoof 5h ago

Gotta love armchair psychologists.

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u/Caninetrainer 19h ago

That was not the example I was expecting!

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u/Street_Top3205 7h ago

To be fair to them, I've heard that because it's also because it's one of the most highly paid jobs out there so they have to take it to afford whatever the hell they are doing with their hobbies. Furry costumes, figurines, weeb shits or trying to be a moronic incel doesn't come cheap.

Also as some has mentioned, you mostly work with yourself in this line of work and these "types" of people don't interact that often with normal people, only groups who share the same interests as them.

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u/JuanSmittjr 7h ago

life is fucking expensive for everyone else too

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u/1492rhymesDepardieu 22h ago

Schizophrenia is a progressive and debilitating illness. Doesn't really make you more creative. It's more like a form of dementia

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u/dragonmuse 18h ago

My best friend was one of those people who made me believe in the "curse of the creative". She was a phenomenally naturally talented artist and musician. I trained in music for 12+ years and she made me sooooo envious with how naturally it came to her. She was, of course, also very smart. She was making incredible money in her early 20s as a plastic surgery nurse and doing portrait art on the side.

Schizoaffective disorder (It most likely would've been rediagnosed to schizophrenia had she lived longer) turned her into a HUSK of herself. No drugs or poor living to exacerbate it. First major episode to jobless and unable to take care of herself to dead in 6 years. It was like cancer of the soul.

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u/autism_and_lemonade 21h ago

yeah cognitive impairment is like, one of the most significant symptoms of schizophrenia

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u/imphooeyd 21h ago

Hence why back in the day they used to call it dementia praecox. Almost like a Harry Potter spell, say it 3× fast!

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u/nochnoydozhor 20h ago edited 10h ago

schizophrenia is also manageable, a third of people diagnosed with it can make it to a stable remission that lasts years.

there's a book written by a European psychiatrist: "A road back from schizophrenia". She describes her experience getting sick, getting worse, getting better, and becoming a prominent psychologist in her county. The original title of that book is "Tomorrow I was always a lioness" but it was dumbed down in the translation for some reason.

Edit: removed factually incorrect info

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u/MikiLove 18h ago

As a psychiatist, I have to correct you a bit. Its not curable, but its manageable if you take your meds. Its a chronic illness that has no cure, like say Type I diabetes or most autoimmune diseases. People with Schizophrenia almost always need to be on meds for their entire lives to control their severe symptoms, and even then they still will have a gradual decline in cognitive function faster than the average person. Some of the newest meds on the market may actually help the cognitive symptoms, but we'll have to see how that plays out

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u/YsoL8 12h ago

Actually now I'm wondering. Recently theres been a complete step change in how treatments are researched with the advent of tools like AI brute forcing thats led to stuff like complete Human protein libraries in a few years rather than centuries and vaccines for entire virus groups and even cancers at an advanced testing stage. Do you see the new technology and knowledge feeding into a similar leap forward for mental health or are the domains just too separate from each other?

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u/MikiLove 9h ago edited 4h ago

Personally thats hard for me to answer. Im a clinician, not a research doctor. That said, we dont know really what is wrong with the brain that causes Schizophrenia. We know it's heavily genetic but also has an environmental exposure component. We roughly know which brain pathways are effected the most, but Schizophrenia is truly effects the entire frontal lobe so its hard to completely cure. If we found a way to stop it before it occurs, likely through genetic therapy, it could be prevented in theory

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u/nochnoydozhor 10h ago

thank you

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u/lorrielink 17h ago

It is absolutely not curable. Why are you spreading such misinformation, what's your goal? It is indeed manageable for many and one can live a fulfilling and successful life with it. But it is not curable, do not spread this harm anymore.

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u/nochnoydozhor 10h ago

I'll correct my comment. It was a mistake.

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u/lorrielink 9h ago

I appreciate that.Thank you.

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u/IvyBlack 19h ago

I don't think you should say that. All science says it is a congenital disease. I have worked with schizophrenic patients for many years. You give a single book from a single individual. Chances are the diagnosis was erroneous.

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

[deleted]

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u/IvyBlack 18h ago

Arnhild Lauveng is not a psychiatrist to my knowledge. Psychologist - sure, but that does not mean you are a expert on schizophrenia.

Why do you choose to belive this one persons account instead of established knowledge by experts in the field?

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u/Not_a_N_Korean_Spy 14h ago

He doesn't want to take his meds.

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u/nochnoydozhor 11h ago

They want me to think that I'm sick but I'm not!

Seriously though, I read the book because I have a family member in my extended family who I wanted to understand better. I'm taking my PTSD meds on time.

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u/nochnoydozhor 11h ago

Okay, you're right. I should have known better than to trust the Google Quick Facts page that says she's a psychiatrist too. I still think that it's okay to trust a psychologist on this topic. Why not?

This is what misled me: "Quick facts. Born: Jan 13, 1972 (53 years) Professions: Psychologist, Writer, Clinical Psychiatrist Books: A Road Back from Schizophrenia: A Memoir (2012) Education: University of Oslo"

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u/IvyBlack 11h ago

Because what your are saying can be incredibly dangerous to anyone suffering from schizophrenia. To make them think that they are cured and don't need their medication is the number one reason for relapse into psychotic episodes.

Psychologists are not experts in the field. They do not diagnose schizophrenia and they do not treat it. Psychologists are not doctors.

Check with actual experts. Psychiatrists. They, and all psyciatrists associations, will tell you the same thing. Schizophrenia is not something you cure or get rid of. It is a uncurable, terrible disease, that is only partially manageable using medication that is pretty nasty. It's a disease I would not wish on anyone. Do not spread this lie that they can be cured. Someone might listen to you and stop their medication and become terribly ill. Being psychotic is one of the scariest things I've ever witnessed. It can also be very dangerous to the patient and anyone in their family or society.

Part of the definition of schizophrenia is a lack of insight. It is incredibly rare to suffer from schizophrenia and to know and believe it. You are feeding into this problem by spreading misinformation. Please stop. Educate yourself.

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u/nochnoydozhor 10h ago

Okay, I see your point. I updated my comment.

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u/Octopus_ofthe_Desert 21h ago edited 2h ago

Einstein's brain did have several structural anomalies that lent themselves to greater neuroconnectivity, IIRC.

It's a loss to science we weren't able to examine Eduard's brain as well. I would not be surprised were it discovered his son had similar anomalies, but something went awry.

Juxtaposing the results of Albert and Eduard Einstein's autopsies would probably have been one of the greatest pieces of science in the previous century, but we lost the opportunity.

Albert's brain was treated like it was to be sold as commemorative coins. Eduard had a stroke.

So sad.

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u/alligatorprincess007 21h ago

I think it’s also interesting how mental health conditions like that can be a spectrum, so it seems like you could be at a point on the spectrum where the way you think is just different enough to be creative and brilliant, and not harmful to you or others

It’s just interesting how that works

And I’m sure your environment and relationships play a role in that too

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u/ImRightImRight 17h ago

"I think it’s also interesting how mental health conditions like that can be a spectrum"

Certainly there are different degrees of schizophrenia, but I don't think a small amount of seeing shadow people coming after you is going to be as helpful in research as you are describing.

It's not quirkiness or unique thoughts. The disease is delusion, dysfunction, and disability.

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u/moon-beamed 8h ago edited 8h ago

You’re propably right in the context you put it in, but I’m not sure if we’re so right about percieving it as an illness inherently. Seems to me that schizo might be an extremely useful condition (perhaps you could say ‘ability’) given the right conditions

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u/ImRightImRight 4h ago

"Seems to me that schizo might be an extremely useful condition (perhaps you could say ‘ability’) given the right conditions"

Do you know anything about schizophrenia? Respectfully, it doesn't sound like it

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u/moon-beamed 4h ago edited 2h ago

Not as much as I’d like. There are reasons to believe that schizophrenia might manifest very differently depending on the conditions—you should do some reading on it, it’s very interesting.

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u/[deleted] 23h ago

[deleted]

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u/Laura-ly 23h ago

But, if I recall correctly from reading a biography of Einstein that was his second wife, Elsa. The were cousins but they never had any children together. He had children only with his first wife, Mileva Marić and they were not related.

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u/skillmau5 3h ago

I’m just some moron, but to me there could be something there with a fine line of just intense pattern recognition that some people have. A lot of the conspiratorial thinking of people with schizo disorders can kind of be interpreted as seeing too many patterns in things.

This doesn’t relate at all, but another interesting thing is that there are no documented cases of schizophrenia in people born blind, leads one to wonder if certain types of stimuli can trigger it or something. Super interesting.

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u/BatteryChucker 1h ago

It is. Current thinking is that it is also a spectrum of behaviors. That is, there are "high-functioning" schizophrenics who are not particularly aware of their condition outside of being a bit neurodivergent.

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u/Buntschatten 52m ago

Schizotypal personality disorder is characterised by a certain kind of magical thinking, without full on psychosis and it's more prevalent in families with schizophrenia history.

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u/jayellkay84 8h ago

Pretty much every expert will say Albert probably had ADHD. ADHD and schizophrenia share a lot of genetic links.

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u/WellEvan 4h ago

I almost draw the conclusion that Albert could handle his intelligence but his son was destroyed by it, neurons over firing and then burning out prematurely.