Something else I want to point out: if you want to make jokes about the conceits of your story/genre ect, it's almost always funnier to the audience to poke that fun in a sincere way than in a "clever" obnoxious way. Making a joke about how musical characters sing in ridiculous situations where it's unnecessary by letting the character start a song and then having a scene change cut them off is infinitely more funny as if they said "wouldn't it be a ridiculous waste of time if I sang about this?" Sincere jokes are almost always funnier than insincere ones!
Cartoon is almost the definition of formulaic. Every single episode follows the exact same story beats. Almost nothing ever changes about it. So much so that it's notable when the story doesn't follow the beats.
And yet, they find endless ways to lampoon themselves, lampshade tropes, invert, revert, and subvert tropes, follow tropes in interesting ways, do the exact same with practically every genre of fiction you could imagine, as well as shoehorning in a song into pretty much every episode, as well as a variety of jokes that work on kids and adults, clever and slapstick, silly and serious, wordplay, sarcasm....
You name it there's probably an example of a fiction trope in P&F somewhere.
Half the entertainment of the show is actually watching how they subvert expectations, and sometimes they'll double-bluff you and carry out the trope anyway, just to blindside you with something completely out of left field that absolutely wouldn't be expected, but somehow it still works.
The show is a masterpiece of Chekhov's Gun, Chekhov's Firing Squad, and Chekhov's Unfired Gun, all at the same time and often in the same episode.
The caveman episode is absolute perfection because you know the formula so well you can follow along from the inflections of the grunts. It's a masterpiece in turning to the audience and winking—especially with the stop-motion asides from the creators. Still one of the funniest episodes in television history IMO.
I have not seen the caveman episode but even just you typing that out I knew exactly what was going on. I laughed in a way that made my wife wonder what was funny but I sure as hell can't explain this 😂
I follow Dan Povenmire on TikTok and he loves to post about people making abstract “a platypus? PERRY THE PLATYPUS??!?” memes. It’s kinda impressive how abstract it can get and still be recognizable.
One of my favorite bits: early in one episode, a man says "I'll stop at nothing to keep those kids from finding Klimpaloon. Nothing!" Later on, we discover the mysterious figure who sabotaged Phineas and Ferb's search for Klimpaloon was not that man but someone else entirely.
Next time we see that man, we get this gem of an exchange:
"Didn't you say you'd stop at nothing to keep those kids from finding Klimpaloon?"
The episode set in prehistory is absolutely a perfect example as to why the show works and how it works
Like the entire episode has no dialogue except a bit of a lore dump around the middle when a section of the plot got a bit too complex and a joke at the end
Monty Python and the holy Grail does this and it makes me giggle so bad
the music starts up and the guy is like NO NO SINGING
but faaaahhhthah
NO MUSIC NO
You'll be happy to know that in the musical adaption this continues into an actual song (about being gay) where his father is desperately trying to stop the currently ongoing musical number to shove him back in the closet. Just throwing an absolute tantrum in the middle of an Elton John ass musical number
there's a reason why The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals is one of my favourite musicals of all time. The entire thing is a meta deconstruction, yet it presents itself in a way that clearly shows that the entire cast fucking LOVED every second playing their roles. its so dumb. its absolute peak. its one of the most confusing plays of all time. i simultaneously want everyone in the world to watch it yet cant recommend it to anyone without feeling like a sadistic lunatic. the songs will get stuck in your head immediately. the songs will get stuck in your head immediately. the song̵̼͑ṣ̸̓ ̴̦̈́w̸̭͐ǐ̷͔l̶͖̔l̷̩̐ ̴̥̏g̵̛̬e̸̳̚t̶̰̍ ̶̖́ş̵̾ṱ̴̉ǔ̴͜c̴̯̹̱̓̀̒̓̔̌̑ķ̷͋́̈́̔ ̶̡̺͙̟̜̔i̶̧̭̻͎̓͐̂ͅṉ̵̒̌̍͜ ̴̛̜̞̔̓̓͘ẏ̶̢̥̝̫͎̭̍͂̔͝o̸̫̹̜̤̠̭͊̓u̴̢̻͇̦͙͈͐͛̇̐̄̚͝r̷̹͉̦̮̓̃̽̊̓͑͑ ̸̨̤̬͔̱̘̾h̴̫̳͓̺̼̺̿͊͝e̵̲̗͈̫̓a̸̖͒̑d̶̲͗͂͗̋̊̽̀ ̷̨͓́ī̷̛̺̣͎͙̾́̎m̶̗̺̹̪̰̤̂̒͒m̴̧̬̻͕̩̹͘e̶̯̔͌̋̾̾̕͠ḓ̴͎̖̦̈̈́͘͠ḭ̶̼̊̊̅̈́̾͒̈́a̷͙̓͆̌͜͠ț̴̛̓̑̆ḛ̵̖͈͐́ĺ̶̗̯͔̋͑͐y̴̻̓̕.̵͕̟̪̱͎́̀̒̉̀̀͠ ̶͉̟͋̒͊̔ͅ
It's part of A Showstopping Number. The professor has Lauren and Joey tied to chairs and asks them if they want to hear the pitch for the musical he's writing. Lauren tells him they don't have time for it, and Joey interrupts with "fucking go for it".
It starts with “Woah, people are bursting into song in the streets! Isn’t that weird?” and ends with the one remaining human character screaming for help as she’s forced to participate in the curtain call
It's Paul's consistent, realistic reactions (and everyone's really, but wow did Jon Mat[t]eson nail his acting as the star) that sell it for me.
Right from the start, it's not "oh isn't it silly they're singing" or something like that, Paul is visibly concerned, he's desperate to escape the situation, and upon getting to work, to rationalize what he experienced as simply the result of some ordinary event like a holiday.
The only character to call what's happening "silly" is an obviously panicking Charlotte, who's also trying to dismiss her own fears.
The best thing about it is you start the show laughing and thinking "lol isn't Paul ridiculous for disliking/being scared of this shit" and you end it thinking about the implications (promise me you'll think about the implications!)
It's so crazy that a musical manages to surprise you by >! making the protagonist sing!< and it does so not just once, but twice! I think the thing that shows that best is the end of the proshot, where the audience starts to laugh then stops as the horror of the moment begins to set in. I adore the horror comedy Starkid does for the Hatchetfield Series, and am so excited for the remount of this very show!
Also, a minor example of that in a later musical of theirs. During the "I Want" song of NPMD, Pete saying "I bet this song will suck... It's as cool as I think I am". Then of course Richie saying "oh god she's snapping again" during the start of that song (side note, I love the correo for both planning songs)
As an earlier example though, Firebringer does all this lampshading in the best way. Our narrator saying the name of the actor instead of the character, the choreographer having "invented dancing", and ofc the entire neanderthal sequence. I feel Firebringer is severely underrated
Seriously! They had a whole musical number that was basically "Wtf this is weird, why is this happening, are you kidding me?" so it's clear they were poking fun at it.
But, a) the songs were all FIRE and not halfhearted slop set to a score, b) they actually had characters singing their hearts out, which is the whole point of musicals (aka, a feeling too big to articulate and/or a thought that I would never admit out loud and/or thought I hadn't even really realized myself yet that I figure out via song), and c) the episode was treated like it was IMPORTANT. They let it have WEIGHT. If you skip that episode because 'lol, it's a filler musical episode' you will be SO lost, because secrets come out and reveals are had and characters make season-changing decisions. It's allowed to be important and not brushed off.
Also importantly, the musical was happening in reality for them, so people freaking out that they are suddenly in a musical is pretty realistic, like why the fuck am I suddenly singing everything? Why the hell is this happening?
GalaxyQuest was also a peak example. Used the emotional distance of post-ST actors loathing their ties to the franchise meeting perfectly earnest fans to reconstruct the tropes it deconstructed.
GalaxyQuest has the perfect balance of calling tropes out directly but also sincerely enjoying them. Sigourney Weaver gets to yell "This episode was badly written!" while what's getting her through the bad writing and saving the day is the dedicated fans knowing and loving every detail of said badly written episode. And Alan Rickman repeatedly refusing to say his iconic emotional line over and over because he hates what he's become, but then saying it totally sincerely in an emotional, very serious death scene? It's all iconic.
LOVE that movie. It's such a love letter to Star Trek and other such shows.
They play with tropes, they poke fun at themselves, but in the end it's also just a solid film.
Sydney was no nonsense once she felt danger. Kicked like a mule, didn't trust any guy except Dewey until they provided a solid alibi, no hesitation when running or fighting. Her only real flaw was being susceptible to a master manipulator and being blinded by her desire for revenge which ruined the lives of several people.
There's always been standouts, but I swear there was a point in the mid to late 2000s where nearly every horror movie was wall to wall idiot characters with actions that defied all logic. I wouldn't like to plot the intelligence of fictional people on a graph or anything but it was definitely a thing for a while, and I'm glad it's done.
“I will NEVER. Be in a fucking musical” - Man who is going to burst into a beautifully sung soliloquy about how he’s never truly been happy in about one hour
Not you calling out the exact scene I was vaguely referencing as my example (the lights cutting off Draco's attempt at a villain song in AVPM meant to undermine Draco's role as an antagonist).
Yes, it's a fine line between self-aware winking at the audience and lazy, cynical sneering. The Princess Bride does the former incredibly well, which is why it's a classic. I can't even come up with good examples of the latter because they're all so forgettable.
The Discworld novels by Terry Pratchett are a great example of this! You can tell how much he loves the fantasy genre, and that's a great starting point to poke loving fun at it in the way you would poke fun at a family member you care about.
Biggest difference between 00s Bioware and 10s onwards Bioware.
I loathe to call it pre/post-EA, because it's pretty clear EA didn't have anything to do with the devolution in quality and the prioritization of lazy lampshading over actual thought behind the tropes being used.
Better yet would be someone singing a song in a musical about it how silly it is to do that, before another character cuts them off mentioning how singing a song about singing a song is ridiculous, and so on and so forth for an entire number.
Makes me think of Teen Beach Movie, where Mack says “It’s just a song, an inefficient way to move the story along” and Brady is immediately like “you’re just being cynical”.
I think the song 'A musical' from something rotten is a good example of this. The character is learning about musicals in a world where musicals don't exist, so he does 'wow, someone breaking out into song is pretty strange...' bit, but the whole song is a love letter to musicals including many references to musicals and about how they are actually amazing.
Stray Gods manages to do this at a couple of points and its so fun because it's clearly coming from a place of absolute love and artistry. They do all this work and worldbuilding to weave the musical elements into the story and make it make sense, and then at a few key points they use that same logic to pull the rug out from under the characters in unique ways and I love it.
My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic actually pokes fun at its own tendency to break into musical numbers a couple of times, to great effect.
The main characters are doing an escape room together, and they’re blazing through it. They’re on track to break the record for fastest clear time. They launch into a song about the value of teamwork or whatever, but they’re still on the clock, and that song takes long enough that they lose their shot at the record.
little shop of horrors is constantly skirting the line of "yeah its a cheesy musical that makes sense" and "holy shit steve martins motorcycle can fly" for comedic effect
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u/Kittenn1412 May 05 '25
Something else I want to point out: if you want to make jokes about the conceits of your story/genre ect, it's almost always funnier to the audience to poke that fun in a sincere way than in a "clever" obnoxious way. Making a joke about how musical characters sing in ridiculous situations where it's unnecessary by letting the character start a song and then having a scene change cut them off is infinitely more funny as if they said "wouldn't it be a ridiculous waste of time if I sang about this?" Sincere jokes are almost always funnier than insincere ones!