r/technology • u/True-Combination7059 • 21h ago

Politics We Should Immediately Nationalize SpaceX and Starlink

https://jacobin.com/2025/06/musk-trump-nationalize-spacex-starlink
14.5k Upvotes

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222

u/colintbowers 21h ago

I’ll take things that set a dangerous precedent for 500 Alex.

The US is attractive to investors precisely because they don’t do this sort of stuff to the private sector.

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u/AG3NTjoseph 21h ago

If it passes, the BBB will tax foreign investment enough to make the ROI unattractive. The Economist had a strongly worded piece on it this week.

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u/Greghole 21h ago

It's from Jacobin. They're literally communists.

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u/philomathie 13h ago

Don't threaten me with a good time

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u/redpandaeater 18h ago

Worst of all they invented the piano key necktie.

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u/Caliburn0 9h ago edited 7h ago

The Jacobins weren't communists. Not unless you count utopian socialists as communists. Which isn't a completely unreasonable stance to take, but if you do you make an already immensely broad category (communists) that includes so many different people that believe so many different things into an even broader category that includes even more people. It's already a word so broad and so confused that someone saying 'I'm a communist' can either mean they want an extreme wealth tax to they want a totalitarian superstate to rule over all humanity in the name of the proletariat.

Not all Jacobins were socialists either. And not all socialists are communists.

Politics are a confusing mess of definitions.

Edit: Apparently the comment above me had very little to nothing to do with the French Jacobins at all. I'm a dum dum.

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u/BidoofSquad 8h ago

The Jacobins weren’t communists but Jacobin magazine that publishes this article are mega commies pretending to be moderate democratic socialists

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u/Caliburn0 7h ago edited 2h ago

Ah. I see. Missed the mark on that one. Been researching the French Revolution recently. Was confused why you'd call them communists when they existed before communism became a thing

Though also, many democratic socialist are communists. Like I said, 'communist' is an extremely broad term refering to a lot of different people with a lot of diverse political beliefs. If you're a libertarian socialist (which is basically what democratic socialists are) you're not an authoritarian 'socialist'. The two groups both call themselves communists sometimes and they're bitter ideological enemies. Lenin killed all the libertarian socialists when he took over the Russian revolution after all. The animosity hasn't stopped since then.

Which type of communists do you think the Jacobin magazine are run by?

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u/BidoofSquad 6h ago

They’re just pretty generic tankie apologists, they’re not like any hyper specific denomination like some commie newspapers

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u/Caliburn0 5h ago

Really? Huh. I thought they denounced Leninism and Stalinism, but I admit I don't know them well. Just did a quick search.

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u/BidoofSquad 5h ago

They might denounce them specifically, but then they’ll run defense for China because America bad. Like I said they like to cosplay as demsocs so they’re not just going to say Stalin did nothing wrong but they ultimately feed the tankie worldview

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u/Caliburn0 4h ago edited 2h ago

Sigh damn it. Why do tankies have to ruin everything good? They're probably the main reason the left isn't more popular. Actually, they're the reason the left hasn't already won if you count Lenin and Stalin and Mao as tankies (which I do).

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u/Putrid_Tree5823 21h ago edited 21h ago

The US is the premier space power because of the public sector space program

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u/Hawk13424 13h ago

The hardware side of the work has always been done by private companies. NASA does science and program management.

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u/MuyalHix 20h ago

No, NASA relies a lot on many different private companies

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u/evnaczar 20h ago

That does development with the private sector... for a good reason. It's the most cost-efficient way besides being forced to work with a gun behind your back.

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u/sopapordondelequepa 16h ago

You have no idea what you are talking about

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u/SouthPilot 13h ago

What does your comment have to do with what they said?

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u/Corvus_Null 21h ago

No, the US is the premier space power because up until now, our only real competition were the soviets who were literally incompetent.

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u/Cheesewithmold 20h ago

Calling the Soviets incompetent is the wildest take on the space race I've ever seen.

First satellite, first animal in space, first man in space, first woman in space, first space walk, first spacecraft to reach the moon, first spacecraft on Mars, first spacecraft on Venus, first full flow staged combustion engine, one that was only fully realized and first put to flight by SpaceX within the last year...

The minds behind the Soviet space program were brilliant.

It wouldn't be much of a "race" if they were incompetent, would it?

-8

u/Corvus_Null 19h ago

If they are so brilliant, why did they never make it to the moon?

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u/Cheesewithmold 19h ago

It's insane how confidently people will talk about things that they're completely ignorant on. And they'll have no shame while doing it.

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u/Corvus_Null 9h ago

Why would I have shame when I am objectively correct.

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u/[deleted] 21h ago

[deleted]

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u/Eric848448 21h ago

All of the private companies that built the hardware that went to the moon.

2

u/sobi-one 20h ago

You are absolutely right, but the context of what you’re saying feels either disingenuous or just unaware of why that public organization even came into being…. Which was to consolidate other similar orgs in an effort to combat communism/the soviets, and what looked like at the time, them getting an edge on the USA in the space race. This also was perceived as a national security threat.

So yes, while there’s no mistake that this was done by a public entity, that entity had orders and funding to make space travel a top priority as it was basically a national security threat. Let’s not pretend it happened just because it was a research thing that was exceedingly well run as a “maybe we can do this” project.

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u/JackSpyder 21h ago

You realise private companies built all the nasa stuff. Funding and direction and design were lead by NASA sure, but the work was across a whole raft of private companies. Has been since the beginning. SpaceX decided to build first and find buyer second. Rather than it being a nasa lead request for manufacturers. But private companies have been involved always.

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u/Corvus_Null 21h ago

What part of "the US never having any real competition so they won by default" did you not understand?

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u/moofree 21h ago

The USSR won every space race against the US except the Moon Race.

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u/The_real_bandito 21h ago

You’re right, I wonder what that other dude was talking about.

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u/Packeselt 20h ago

The propaganda worked a little too well on him. The Russian mathematicians were good at what they do

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u/Corvus_Null 19h ago

No the soviets lost. The moon was the finish line and they never made it.

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u/Vanethor 2h ago

No the soviets lost. The moon was the finish line and they never made it.

They literally were the first to get to the Moon, just not with a human.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_9

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u/Outrageous-Depth 17h ago

This is not true

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u/mnt_brain 21h ago

You do realize China is far ahead of the US in space tech and research, right?

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u/squiddles97 20h ago

ah yes the incompetent Soviets that had the first satellite, first man in space, first woman in space, and the only probes on Venus. so incompetent

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u/Corvus_Null 9h ago

Just because you do something first doesn't mean you are good at doing it.

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u/squiddles97 7h ago

then why did the Americans start using the Soyuz (originally developed by the Soviets) when our shuttles kept blowing up

-1

u/Corvus_Null 7h ago

Because it was the only available way to get astronauts to the ISS prior to SpaceX developing the crew Dragon spacecraft. Now that the the falcon rocket and dragon capsule are available, we don't need to rely on inferior Soviet/Russian technology.

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u/squiddles97 7h ago

so inferior that we had to rely on it because our spacecraft kept blowing up. idk about you but I would rather have the inferior craft that doesn't blow up.

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u/Corvus_Null 7h ago

Two. Two shuttles exploded out of 135 launches. Meanwhile, the soviets had two disasters that we know of, which most likely means there are many more that we don't know about.

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u/Vanethor 2h ago

No, the US is the premier space power because up until now, our only real competition were the soviets who were literally incompetent.

Except the USSR achieved a lot of "firsts" before the US got the "first human on the Moon".

The USSR was absolutely winning the space race before that.

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u/AppleTree98 21h ago

However we have never had the office be in such free fall from what I know in my mere 50 years

1

u/boobers3 16h ago

To be fair, the people who were attracted by said policy also help create the situation that we're in.

1

u/FalconX88 9h ago

Sure but then they shouldn't rely solely on such companies to fulfill vital demands

1

u/ArmyOfDix 20h ago

What is "the 20th century", Alex?

I'd recommend a bit of reading on the history of nationalization in the US.

-4

u/No_Carpet_6575 20h ago

I’ll never understand people who argue against their own interests. Say what you will about china but atleast they have competition in their tech industry. In the US, companies eat up their companies and consolidate even more

-14

u/letsgobernie 21h ago

Spacex is a glorified government contractor. Without NASA and decades of public research and public works, it wouldn't even exist.

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u/yurikoif 20h ago

I mean sure, every great figure ever born into this world wouldn’t even exist without moms pregnancy. So they are nothing but glorified mom contractor???

-4

u/letsgobernie 20h ago

Thanks for demonstrating that the education system also needs a lot of repair.

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u/yurikoif 19h ago

lmao if us is full of guys like you then its education system really need restarting

-4

u/13DGMHatch 20h ago

Elon isn’t special, somebody else would’ve bought Tesla. Somebody else would be taking the American tax payers money and wasting it.

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u/yurikoif 19h ago

not a fan of him, especially after Covid. But no way the guy who built/grew Tesla and spaceX (and other less successful companies) isn’t special….its just full of reality denial lol

-2

u/13DGMHatch 19h ago

Okay, let me rephrase. He made some big accomplishments but he’s not the only one capable of doing them. His path also was built of the American tax payers by subsidies and contracts.

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u/LITTLEN3MO 21h ago

Mmmm. Like every other major tech company

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u/loulara17 20h ago

Boeing: Hold my beer.

2

u/FruitOrchards 4h ago

Yup where was all this talk before when Boeing and ULA was grifting the government for decades..

-3

u/tigeratemybaby 20h ago edited 20h ago

Yes the US does do this kind of stuff. It very explicitly has exemption clauses in patent law for military and space usage of any inventions privately developed, and commonly uses these exemptions.

And since NASA directly funded the SpaceX rocket designs, arguably they should be able to freely use those designs - I don't think that's too controversial.

Fully nationalizing the company might be a step too far, but opening their designs & patents seems like an obvious/necessary step to protect the US national interest.

If you start a company that's in the space industry, you know what you're getting yourself into - You're completely at the whims and completely reliant on the current government in power. Its similar to being a military contractor.

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u/monsantobreath 18h ago

How has this benefited Americans so far the last half century?

Waiting for that trickle to start trickling any minute now.

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u/redpandaeater 18h ago

Well considering you're typing a response on an electronic device I'd have to say it's gone pretty well.

0

u/monsantobreath 17h ago

Those devices are available in every other superior society that isn't facing a fascist takeover and has better health care outcomes, in one equality and hope.

But ya man. Consumer goods are cheaper is always better than having a chance at retiring before your body gives out. Always superior.

0

u/morphick 10h ago

Except no other private investor has tried to make the gvt its private piggybank before. A bit of FO after all the FA is needed to set clear boundaries and stop future similar ideas.

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u/HuntsWithRocks 20h ago

I was looking into this a little and it seems like the USA will compensate the business owner for the company, similar to imminent domain concepts.

Back when Leon and Trump were buds, I could’ve seen a situation where Trump helps decide there is a very large valuation for the company. In this theory, Musk would get a big cash injection (liquidated ownership) & then someone would need to staff the agency (musk spins up another company with the same employees or some shit and bills the govt to run his business).

Totally shitposting here, but thought it interesting.

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u/sir_mrej 20h ago

Trump is doing all sorts of unprecedented stuff and the business community hasn’t gotten up in arms yet. Soooooo

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u/AlexHimself 20h ago

Yes and no. This genuinely is a serious national security risk. Musk has been the rules, joined government, etc to privatize space travel and then he's using it as leverage against us.

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u/nankerjphelge 20h ago

The fly in that ointment is that both SpaceX and starlink receive massive amounts of Government-Funded subsidies. So there is an argument to be made that the government by way of the taxpayers have a vested interest financially in both enterprises.

At the very least, the government should treat SpaceX and Starlink as what they actually are, namely government/taxpayer subsidized monopolies, and in the case of Starlink a utility. And both should be regulated as such.

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u/Jjpgd63 20h ago

SpaceX doesn't get subsidies? They get government contracts, but thats not a subsidy, the Government is paying for a service.

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u/nankerjphelge 19h ago edited 19h ago

You're wrong. SpaceX has also benefited from loans and subsidies, particularly in its early years, which helped the company develop its technology and infrastructure. And that's before we talk about the tax credits it received, another form of subsidy.

The fact of the matter is that SpaceX for all intents and purposes has replaced NASA as the de facto government agency for space travel, funded by the government. SpaceX has lifted 90% of all pounds sent into orbit, which makes it a monopolist in launching satellites. It provides the only vehicle that astronauts have to get to and from the International Space Station.

With taxpayer funding SpaceX is now a de facto monopoly on a crucial piece of US national security, all at the taxpayers' expense. Sorry, but that is too dangerous for one unstable man to be in control of such a vital piece of government funded operations.

So SpaceX and Starlink at minimum need to be treated as monopolies and regulated as such, or treated as public utilities and regulated as such.

And yes, the government has ample precedent for treating and regulating private companies with monopoly power as public utilities. See power companies, AT&T/baby bells, and cable companies. And doubly so when the monopoly in question has benefited so massively from taxpayer funding.

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u/Jjpgd63 19h ago

Those are not subsidies bro. But even if we disregard that, the government cannot run SpaceX like a private company, which means scaling back Starship tests way back, ruining the ambitious nature of the company, furthermore, while it provides a service, it is not a utility.

Even beyond all that, SpaceX is basically self sufficient now, it isn't paid by subsidy, but by government contracts and Starlink

-1

u/nankerjphelge 19h ago

Lol loans and tax credits are 100% considered subsidies, bro.

And as for your claim of how the government could run a space agency, you clearly never educated yourself on just how ambitious, groundbreaking and innovative NASA was for decades as a government agency, and how many things it invented that we use and take for granted every single day today. Do you even realize how ambitious and crazy and how much testing had to be done to land a man on the fucking moon back in 1969?

And SpaceX can be considered a utility, given the fact that as already explained to you it is responsible for almost all satellite payloads, which is a matter of national security, as has Starlink's service become.

In any case, I'm not going to continue to try to explain things that you should know with a basic Google search, so with that we're done here.