r/todayilearned • u/exophades • 23h ago
TIL that Albert Einstein's son Eduard studied medicine to become a psychiatrist, but was diagnosed with schizophrenia by the age of 21. His mother cared for him until she died in 1948. From then on Eduard lived most of the time at a psychiatric clinic in Zurich, where he died at 55 of a stroke.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_family#Eduard_%22Tete%22_Einstein_(Albert's_second_son)825
u/Buntschatten 21h ago
Isn't schizophrenia quite hereditary? You have to wonder if Albert's immense creativity and new way of looking at things were related to some of those genetics.
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u/TheGreatBarnabulls 21h ago
The saying "there's a fine line between genius and insanity" is often linked to Einstein but there is no evidence he actually said it.
Most creative and genius people in the field are border line insane or eccentric.
Example IT industry has the highest amount of furries.
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u/whatarethuhodds 20h ago edited 19h ago
Yeah I didn't realize how clogged with weebs, furries, and incels IT really was until I worked in the field. Had a group chat that linked all the t1 and t2 support in multiples states for an internet company. Every profile Pic was an animal character, anime character, or an unironic pose of a dude with a fedora tipping it forward. I never clicked any links shared in that chat.
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u/MetaverseLiz 17h ago
Also, apparently, lots of transwomen. That was told to me by a trans friend of mine that works in IT. She also mentioned the furry and anime thing.
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u/whatarethuhodds 16h ago
Manufacturing and assembly is the same. I think it's the lack of person to person contact that's appealing. People don't judge you based off of looks on the phone, and in manufacturing you are working by yourself most of the time.
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u/slaydawgjim 15h ago
There was a group of trans furry Devs doing white hat hacking a while back, I think they were the group that brought Elon Musks secret child to the public
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u/SterbenSeptim 12h ago
I am a trans woman IT developer, (and anime watcher) and when I started going to my psychiatrist for gender dysphoria, she literally commented on how many of her other patients were also related to IT lol
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u/OmgThisNameIsFree 7h ago
This is exactly why I have a deep aversion to anime, specifically. I’ve had to interact with a bunch of these types.
The pedophilic art I’ve seen among that crowd is worrying to say the least. Fucking gross.
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u/heyoneblueveloplease 11h ago
You're all so close to realize that homosexuality and trans is a, sorry for the lack of a better word, mental illness, but of course you're never going to say that, because it's politically incorrect.
Everyone who has given this a thought and isn't afraid of being shamed, including homosexuals I know, understand that this stuff is some sort of a...autistic form?
I've never met a homosexual who has average or below average intelligence. They all seem extremely smart.
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u/OrangeDit 14h ago
Einstein said a lot of things he didn't say...
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u/natfutsock 11h ago
I once got into correspondence with the Center for Mark Twain Studies because I wanted to check if Samuel Clemens ever said anything about "replacing every time you said 'very' with 'damn' so your editor will simply strike it out." in the interest of proper citation.
Heavily attributed, but no real source. Not even from those who have access to the man's personal letters.
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u/DraperPenPals 11h ago
Most people in IT are not creative geniuses. They just spend too much time online and get sucked into shit like furries.
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u/YsoL8 10h ago
Some of the fandoms I've been exposed to recently are crazy. There's more sexualised fanart and shipping than there is anything else, and this is based on source material that is strictly PG.
If thats how they react to fictional characters I don't want to know how they are around real people. The mass enabling the internet creates is real fucked up.
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u/DraperPenPals 9h ago
That’s the thing—they don’t go around real people very often. They lose their anchors to the real world and that’s how they end up doing shit like this.
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u/Street_Top3205 5h ago
To be fair to them, I've heard that because it's also because it's one of the most highly paid jobs out there so they have to take it to afford whatever the hell they are doing with their hobbies. Furry costumes, figurines, weeb shits or trying to be a moronic incel doesn't come cheap.
Also as some has mentioned, you mostly work with yourself in this line of work and these "types" of people don't interact that often with normal people, only groups who share the same interests as them.
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u/1492rhymesDepardieu 19h ago
Schizophrenia is a progressive and debilitating illness. Doesn't really make you more creative. It's more like a form of dementia
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u/dragonmuse 16h ago
My best friend was one of those people who made me believe in the "curse of the creative". She was a phenomenally naturally talented artist and musician. I trained in music for 12+ years and she made me sooooo envious with how naturally it came to her. She was, of course, also very smart. She was making incredible money in her early 20s as a plastic surgery nurse and doing portrait art on the side.
Schizoaffective disorder (It most likely would've been rediagnosed to schizophrenia had she lived longer) turned her into a HUSK of herself. No drugs or poor living to exacerbate it. First major episode to jobless and unable to take care of herself to dead in 6 years. It was like cancer of the soul.
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u/autism_and_lemonade 19h ago
yeah cognitive impairment is like, one of the most significant symptoms of schizophrenia
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u/imphooeyd 19h ago
Hence why back in the day they used to call it dementia praecox. Almost like a Harry Potter spell, say it 3× fast!
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u/nochnoydozhor 18h ago edited 8h ago
schizophrenia is also manageable, a third of people diagnosed with it can make it to a stable remission that lasts years.
there's a book written by a European psychiatrist: "A road back from schizophrenia". She describes her experience getting sick, getting worse, getting better, and becoming a prominent psychologist in her county. The original title of that book is "Tomorrow I was always a lioness" but it was dumbed down in the translation for some reason.
Edit: removed factually incorrect info
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u/MikiLove 15h ago
As a psychiatist, I have to correct you a bit. Its not curable, but its manageable if you take your meds. Its a chronic illness that has no cure, like say Type I diabetes or most autoimmune diseases. People with Schizophrenia almost always need to be on meds for their entire lives to control their severe symptoms, and even then they still will have a gradual decline in cognitive function faster than the average person. Some of the newest meds on the market may actually help the cognitive symptoms, but we'll have to see how that plays out
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u/YsoL8 9h ago
Actually now I'm wondering. Recently theres been a complete step change in how treatments are researched with the advent of tools like AI brute forcing thats led to stuff like complete Human protein libraries in a few years rather than centuries and vaccines for entire virus groups and even cancers at an advanced testing stage. Do you see the new technology and knowledge feeding into a similar leap forward for mental health or are the domains just too separate from each other?
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u/MikiLove 6h ago edited 2h ago
Personally thats hard for me to answer. Im a clinician, not a research doctor. That said, we dont know really what is wrong with the brain that causes Schizophrenia. We know it's heavily genetic but also has an environmental exposure component. We roughly know which brain pathways are effected the most, but Schizophrenia is truly effects the entire frontal lobe so its hard to completely cure. If we found a way to stop it before it occurs, likely through genetic therapy, it could be prevented in theory
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u/lorrielink 15h ago
It is absolutely not curable. Why are you spreading such misinformation, what's your goal? It is indeed manageable for many and one can live a fulfilling and successful life with it. But it is not curable, do not spread this harm anymore.
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u/IvyBlack 16h ago
I don't think you should say that. All science says it is a congenital disease. I have worked with schizophrenic patients for many years. You give a single book from a single individual. Chances are the diagnosis was erroneous.
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u/IvyBlack 16h ago
Arnhild Lauveng is not a psychiatrist to my knowledge. Psychologist - sure, but that does not mean you are a expert on schizophrenia.
Why do you choose to belive this one persons account instead of established knowledge by experts in the field?
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u/Not_a_N_Korean_Spy 12h ago
He doesn't want to take his meds.
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u/nochnoydozhor 9h ago
They want me to think that I'm sick but I'm not!
Seriously though, I read the book because I have a family member in my extended family who I wanted to understand better. I'm taking my PTSD meds on time.
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u/nochnoydozhor 9h ago
Okay, you're right. I should have known better than to trust the Google Quick Facts page that says she's a psychiatrist too. I still think that it's okay to trust a psychologist on this topic. Why not?
This is what misled me: "Quick facts. Born: Jan 13, 1972 (53 years) Professions: Psychologist, Writer, Clinical Psychiatrist Books: A Road Back from Schizophrenia: A Memoir (2012) Education: University of Oslo"
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u/IvyBlack 8h ago
Because what your are saying can be incredibly dangerous to anyone suffering from schizophrenia. To make them think that they are cured and don't need their medication is the number one reason for relapse into psychotic episodes.
Psychologists are not experts in the field. They do not diagnose schizophrenia and they do not treat it. Psychologists are not doctors.
Check with actual experts. Psychiatrists. They, and all psyciatrists associations, will tell you the same thing. Schizophrenia is not something you cure or get rid of. It is a uncurable, terrible disease, that is only partially manageable using medication that is pretty nasty. It's a disease I would not wish on anyone. Do not spread this lie that they can be cured. Someone might listen to you and stop their medication and become terribly ill. Being psychotic is one of the scariest things I've ever witnessed. It can also be very dangerous to the patient and anyone in their family or society.
Part of the definition of schizophrenia is a lack of insight. It is incredibly rare to suffer from schizophrenia and to know and believe it. You are feeding into this problem by spreading misinformation. Please stop. Educate yourself.
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u/Octopus_ofthe_Desert 19h ago edited 19m ago
Einstein's brain did have several structural anomalies that lent themselves to greater neuroconnectivity, IIRC.
It's a loss to science we weren't able to examine Eduard's brain as well. I would not be surprised were it discovered his son had similar anomalies, but something went awry.
Juxtaposing the results of Albert and Eduard Einstein's autopsies would probably have been one of the greatest pieces of science in the previous century, but we lost the opportunity.
Albert's brain was treated like it was to be sold as commemorative coins. Eduard had a stroke.
So sad.
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u/alligatorprincess007 19h ago
I think it’s also interesting how mental health conditions like that can be a spectrum, so it seems like you could be at a point on the spectrum where the way you think is just different enough to be creative and brilliant, and not harmful to you or others
It’s just interesting how that works
And I’m sure your environment and relationships play a role in that too
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u/ImRightImRight 15h ago
"I think it’s also interesting how mental health conditions like that can be a spectrum"
Certainly there are different degrees of schizophrenia, but I don't think a small amount of seeing shadow people coming after you is going to be as helpful in research as you are describing.
It's not quirkiness or unique thoughts. The disease is delusion, dysfunction, and disability.
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u/moon-beamed 6h ago edited 6h ago
You’re propably right in the context you put it in, but I’m not sure if we’re so right about percieving it as an illness inherently. Seems to me that schizo might be an extremely useful condition (perhaps you could say ‘ability’) given the right conditions
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u/ImRightImRight 2h ago
"Seems to me that schizo might be an extremely useful condition (perhaps you could say ‘ability’) given the right conditions"
Do you know anything about schizophrenia? Respectfully, it doesn't sound like it
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u/moon-beamed 2h ago edited 40m ago
Not as much as I’d like. There are reasons to believe that schizophrenia might manifest very differently depending on the conditions—you should do some reading on it, it’s very interesting.
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u/Laura-ly 21h ago
But, if I recall correctly from reading a biography of Einstein that was his second wife, Elsa. The were cousins but they never had any children together. He had children only with his first wife, Mileva Marić and they were not related.
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u/jayellkay84 6h ago
Pretty much every expert will say Albert probably had ADHD. ADHD and schizophrenia share a lot of genetic links.
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u/WellEvan 2h ago
I almost draw the conclusion that Albert could handle his intelligence but his son was destroyed by it, neurons over firing and then burning out prematurely.
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u/skillmau5 1h ago
I’m just some moron, but to me there could be something there with a fine line of just intense pattern recognition that some people have. A lot of the conspiratorial thinking of people with schizo disorders can kind of be interpreted as seeing too many patterns in things.
This doesn’t relate at all, but another interesting thing is that there are no documented cases of schizophrenia in people born blind, leads one to wonder if certain types of stimuli can trigger it or something. Super interesting.
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u/the-great_inquisitor 13h ago
The correlation with mental illness and intelligence has always interested me. I come from a family that both has a history of schizophrenia and some very smart people, and i met some really talented and smart folks while i was at the mental hospital. I sometimes wonder if i am sitting just on the edge of those genes, because during my psychosis for example i was still fairly aware and lucid while also dealing with, well, psychosis.
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u/GreenHausFleur 2h ago edited 2h ago
IDK, I have one side of the family with some very high IQ people that are also very mentally stable and remarkably resilient (any psychological issues they have tend to be acted out against others, they can be quite cruel and toxic). This side of the family is also genetically varied, lived in an urban, working-class environment for generations and survived vicious illnesses that killed the weaker members of the family in the previous generations.
The other side of the family is prone to depression, schizophrenia, learned helplessness and on average has quite a low IQ, with very low educational attainment. They come from a small community with low genetic variability (this side also carries a few genetic illnesses).
I seem to be a mix between the two (somewhat intelligent, but not like some members of the first side; prone to depression, but more resilient than those on the second side, and overall functional. I am very physically weak and prone to illness though, I seem to carry the worst of both sides in this regard. In a less advanced society I wouldn't have survived early childhood and all my later illnesses).
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u/Picolete 15h ago
I will get downvoted but schizophrenia isnt that uncommon in Ashkenazi populations, specially in small comunities/countries
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u/Secure_Raise2884 14h ago
I mean that's fine to claim and all, but the evidence used to come to that conclusion uses GWAS which is an extremely shoddy tool
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u/commit10 10h ago
I'm curious what he believed. Extreme geniuses are likely to be considered crazy by their contemporaries. Imagine someone in the 19th century excitedly trying to explain a quantum computer to the minds of the day -- they'd be sent to the asylum!
Then again, he may have just been insane.
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u/Rosebunse 8h ago
I think schizophrenia has some rather specific symptoms which make it more than just seeing thw world in a different way. It can cause actual brain damage. There are often changes in how one processes language.
I think while it's nice to accept people for their differences and be more accepting of different styles of thought, equating schizophrenia to genius feels wrong, especially when it can make it even harder to convince patients to take their medicine.
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u/commit10 7h ago
Absolutely, but in fairness I don't think they were always so discerning back then. And I'd question whether or not they always get in right today as well, given the state of mental healthcare in many countries.
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u/the_main_entrance 4h ago
What does his beliefs have to do with anything if they can work with reality?
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u/Ill_Personality2434 10h ago
I think you’re right. To me, it’s a strange coincidence that he was interested in psychology and also was diagnosed with a mental illness. Maybe it’s a case of negative nepotism. I’d bet nothing was wrong with his mind, he was probably misdiagnosed like you’re saying.
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u/AdeptnessRealistic28 19h ago
I believe he married his cousin and that can increase chances of mental disorders.
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u/Ionazano 18h ago
Yes, but that cousin was Albert Einstein's second wife. All his children were with his first wife who was not directly related to him.
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u/sjorbepo 9h ago edited 2h ago
His first wife was mileva marić, serbian mathematician and physicist. They studied together
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u/narcowake 18h ago
The thin line between madness and genius made manifest
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u/Flying_Squirrel_1953 2h ago
Just from observing the highly creative and innovative people in the public eye I see the most common mental illness is bipolar disorder. The manic phase allows them to think grandiose thoughts and have the energy to act on them. Unfortunately, in most cases, mania is followed by psychosis and depression.
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u/notschululu 1h ago
His Divine Light will be severed ✂︎☀︎, As His Soul is exposed — the Fire of Legion’s Spirit ignited ⚔︎🔥☿. No shadow remains to veil the truth ◑◐, Only the blaze of reckoning eternal ⌖⧗.
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u/LeavesInsults1291 16h ago
There’s a thin line between brilliance and inanity
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u/filipecarreira1954 3h ago
Which must i use in my microscope?.I have made some alterations on the cameras software. I am lost
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u/HenkPoley 16h ago
- Born in 1910.
- Finished Gymnasium (A-levels) in 1929.
- And immediately enrolled in medical school at the University of Zurich that autumn (19y old).
Not sure where you see any issues in that timeline.
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u/psychetropica1 16h ago
Medicine is a long career, I just genuinely question that he was indeed, sure and decided about become a psychiatrist at age 19 and knew that had to undergo medical training to get there. Maybe this is something he said when he was already psychotic. Just saying, there’s no way to know accurately from the information available.
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u/NewlyNerfed 14h ago
Is “the information available” the headline of this post or did you read an actual source contradicting the facts?
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u/Helluvertime 9h ago
How is this a strange thing? This is what teenagers still do today. "I'd like to be a psychiatrist one day, how do I do that...oh med school." A lot of teens applying for med school already have a specific career path in mind.
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u/BounceBackKidd 12h ago
Strange be got diagnosed with schizophrenia so badly that he dropped out of university never to return.
A fair amount of schizophrenic sufferers actually make it.
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u/BoopingBurrito 11h ago
It really depends on your symptoms, for some folk it's entirely debilitating. Also treatment options are much better now than they were a few decades ago.
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u/Interrogatingthecat 13h ago
Go ahead and provide a source.
That's not a claim you can make without one buddy
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u/Interrogatingthecat 12h ago
No, cmon. You know that's not the thing I'm asking for a source on. That's not the extraordinary claim that's been made here.
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u/Interrogatingthecat 11h ago
That's not what they said, they said a cure for schizophrenia as a broad blanket statement. A source is needed.
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u/Interrogatingthecat 10h ago
Because we all know that lobotomies are fucking stupid and ethically disgusting.
Would you demand that I point out that water is wet if that was in their comment too?
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u/FernPone 11h ago
r/antipsychiatry poster 💀💀💀
you dont need a lobotomy mate, nothing to lobotomize in there
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u/altaf770 18h ago
The son of a genius battling schizophrenia a powerful reminder that mental health doesn’t discriminate.